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Post by
120885
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Post by
Izichial
It often differs between guilds and PuGs. On my server, Kazzak-EU, PuGs need tanks more often than healers, while guilds tend to need healers more than tanks. Not too surprisingly, horde guilds are most in need of holy paladins, and alliance guilds resto shamans.
I can't speak for the resto shamans on alliance, but I suspect that the number of holy paladins on Horde would be great if all the people who rolled a paladin for endgame as holy spec actually stayed that way. Out of the maybe 7 really good holy paladins I've played with, 3 have quit, 2 changed main spec to retri, 1 rerolled back to his old main (a holy priest) and only 1 is still playing as holy.
Post by
Philmckraken
i dont see why so many people despise pugs so much. i healed and i succeeded in 90% of the pugs i did. they mostly fail when someone has to leave because it's so inconvenient to find a replacement. but i suppose as a healer you tend to get more recognition from good players wanting you to 'pug' than someone who is just another dps role.
For a good portion of my leveling between 30-something and 60-something, I had a "regular PuG" that I tanked for, consisting of 2-3 really good players and myself. If you're a good tank or healer, you never use LFG; groups find you.
As for the rest of your post, awaters...I'm just not buying it. You say that "everyone's a 70," yet WoW subscriptions increase on a monthly basis. For as many players as I know with 1-2 70s and 6 more alts, there are more signing up for WoW every day.
The real problem is that since it's so easy to level by questing, instances are generally unneccessary, and since most players are casual and questing doesn't require a time committment of at least an hour, it's harder to find an instance group. Alts have nothing to do with it; if anything, the guy with a warrior main and healer alt is going to want as many instance runs on the healer as possible so that he'll be as good a healer as possible.
Since you're still bringing up your "cross-realm instancing" idea, I'll continue to disagree with it. I've seen cross-server "teamwork" in action in Alterac Valley and Warsong Gulch...If I had to put up with it every time I wanted to run an instance, I'd find something else to do.
Post by
mojojojo101
On my server which tends to be quite sparsely populated we tend to have no problems finding healers but a much bigger problem finding tanks. I dont have this problem as i rolled a tank, not intending to tank at the time but still...
Im kinda bored of tanking on my druid tho so am currently lvling a priest who just dinged 40 about 20 mins ago. What i tend to find is that all the healers/tanks i group with do tend to be players who have lvl 70's and want to see another aspect of the game. However most of the dps do tend to be newer players who more and more often have absolutely no clue what to do. ( A rogue trying to pull morgraine from the entrance of the monastery part in cath springs to mind, this guy @ 39 also failed to understand the term 'buff')
Post by
Gnostik
It often differs between guilds and PuGs. On my server, Kazzak-EU, PuGs need tanks more often than healers, while guilds tend to need healers more than tanks.
This has been my experience as well, having a 70 on two different servers. When I'm in a PuG, it's impossible to find a tank. The reason seems to be that all the tanks are "taken" - they pretty much only run raids and 5-mans with their guild. But, when it comes to guild runs, the tank slot(s) are pretty much always filled before the run starts, and then we end up needing 1 or 2 more dedicated healers.
This all makes perfect sense given game mechanics, most of which are mentioned above. First you have the fact that tanking-spec'd characters are utterly useless in PvP, as well as very ineffective for farming and questing. (Prot Paladins may be an exception here, given their AoE grinding capabilities.) I know this is the sole reason I refuse to roll a tank to fill the gap; I don't find the idea of farming 100g every week just so I can be viable in all areas of the game to be very appealing. And I imagine there are a lot of other people who feel the same way. This explains the low numbers; and the fact that raids need exactly one MT explains why most tanks are "married" to a guild. There's pretty much an even ratio, I think.
But raids need more than one dedicated healer. When it comes to these classes, you don't have
quite
the same problem as the tanks, but it's similar. Farming and questing is like watching paint dry with these characters, and instances are very repetitive. Thus they're just not as fun to most people. Then you have a similar respec issue. While these characters
can
do PvE and PvP with the same spec, the reality is that the most effective PvP healing spec is often not suitable for raiding. (For 5-mans you can generally get away with a PvP-spec'd healer.) So you have a similar shortage among healers as tanks, but with higher demand when it comes to raiding. Thus raids tend to lack healers, not tanks.
All of this illustrates what is, to me, the worst aspect of WoW, and that's the separation between the raiding game and the rest of the game. The raiding game is essentially a totally different game. It requires spec's, stats, gear, and strategy that's different from a 5-man group or PvP. As a caster, for example, I'm required to stack as much +spell hit as possible, for no other purpose than to kill raid bosses. That equipment is more or less useless in every other aspect of the game.
But it's not just gear, it's talents. When you invest the huge amount of time necessary to level and equip a character capable of tanking raids and heroics, that character becomes useless in any other setting. You require a group in order to play, and you're only effective in limited situations. There is one type of player for whom this is appealing: a person who raids multiple nights, every week. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that this type of player is a tiny minority in this game. Most people want to experience everything the game has to offer, and so they choose a character that lets them do that.
The rift between raiding and PvP is the biggest flaw in this game, from my point of view. I used to think this was a poor design decision, but I've pretty much decided that Blizz intentionally created an entirely separate set of stats for the two just to create two separate grinds (i.e. time sinks.)
Post by
141329
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Post by
66167
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Post by
moocow
There are a couple more options for healers, but unless you're a protection paladin, a prot warrior, or a bear druid, you are not a tank in heroics or raids.Fixed that for you.
On my server there's a big lack of pug heroic tanks. Many of the groups I make fall apart due to not finding a tank. Almost all Warriors are PvP specced, and the rest are married, as Gnostik said. There are quite a few feral Druids (maybe a third feral, half resto and rest balance) and a bit less Protadins (half holy, third ret, rest prot), but not nearly enough to fill the demand.
Post by
143437
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Post by
Philmckraken
Ret pallys can tank if they have good gear and a halfway decent player.
Ret paladins can tank a dungeon 5 levels beneath them if they have good gear and a 1/2way decent player. a 70 Ret Paladin is not a suitable tank for a 70 instance, regardless of gear.
Post by
141329
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Post by
93966
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Post by
Philmckraken
Not true, I've seen it done multiple times and with good success. Open your mind man and try to think outside the box.
What "box" am I supposed to be thinking outside of? Mathematical certainty? Ultimately, WoW runs on numbers. No amount of skill or luck is going to make up for the fact that your armor, health and defense ratings are below the minimum threshold needed make it through higher-level instances.
Post by
141329
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Post by
106896
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Post by
122668
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Post by
106896
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Post by
Philmckraken
I’m sorry to see you have such a closed mind about this.
Moonkins, Shamans and Ret Paladins have all been able to tank heroics. If the player is geared properly and knows what they're doing. I have seen with my own eyes Ret paladins tanking superbly,
Sure they have, when they were massively over-geared. Or, they were average and had excellent healers.
You can use a class other than prot paladin/warrior or bear druid to tank. You can also ice-skate uphill.
Post by
Musicman835
When i bought the game i picked a class that i thought was gonna be cool. My FIRST character was a warrior and i finally got to 70 and all i have to say is i hope i never have to level a warrior again its soooo hard. I like most have stayed spec'd for pvp due to the fact that when i was prot for a week or 2 leveling and grinding just took forever. Becides weh i picked it i didnt realize that a warrior was a tank so i never really learn to tank although i have 'tanked' ( i use that word very loosly) some 5 mans. And i know there is a shortage of tanks on my server (Hakkar- US) due to the fact that i am asked to tank something aout evey half an hour and when i say im not prot they say o well can you tank anyway.
and most of the PuG i've been in the tank really get's little respect from the other players. When they need to realize i can leave at a sec if they ^&*! me off to bad and they'll be looking for another hour for another tank. Most people dont want to put the time in it takes to level a warrior which is why theres also a shortage or people just want big numbers.
Post by
Sgtpain
G1-Ret pally x2, Prot pally, Arms warrior, Resto shammy,
G2-Holy preist x2, mage, ret pally, arms warrior
G3-Rogue, prot pally, ret pally x2, holy pally
Anyone seeing a pattern here? Suddenly, dps is becoming the real issue here.
Yeah, the pattern is "Thrown-together PuGs."
G1 contains a healer, a tank, and 3 DPS.
G2 has no tank.
G3 is similar to G1, but with more paladins.
Finding DPS will never be "an issue." DPS classes get to quest, BG and instance/raid without respecing. This is why there are so many hunters on every server. By now, you have surely realized that there are only 3 specs (not classes, mind you) that can tank. There are a couple more options for healers, but unless you're a protection paladin, a prot warrior, or a bear druid, you are not a tank.
The day that Blizzard adds a tank-ready talent tree to every class, and makes respecing cost 1g is the day that there will be more tanks than DPS.
G2 was the one I left right off the bat. We got in, then I realized we had no tank, and tried to insist we find a tank, but apparently every person there was a tank and able to solo each elite themselves.../quit
Just seems like everyone lvl 30-40 is a pally, warrior or preist.
This
is the problem with WoW, people do not know how to play hybrid classes. Paladins and Druids are the only other tank classes that
have
to spec a certain tree in order to tank anywhere as good as a Warrior. All your Arms Warrior needs to do is put on a One Hand Weapon and Shield, switch to Defensive Stance, and use the tank skills that you get by default (Sunder, Revenge, etc).
In a similar situation, say we have a Shadow Priest and no other healers, should your group be broken up then because you can't get a more effective healer? ...No, get that Shadow Priest to step out of Shadowform and heal, because other people in the party can replace the DPS, but no one else can replace the healing.
In general, an Arms Warrior or Shadow Priest might not be as good as a Prot Warrior or Holy/Disc Priest for their respective jobs, but you could easily alleviate this problem by keeping your DPS in check or doing manageable pulls.
Hybrid classes exist in WoW for a reason.
not sure what your point is. As a druid, i can tank, heal and dps all with one spec...feral. I simply change up gear. I have done all three roles in ST already, and were it not for a runner who managed to get away while I was tanking once, we would not have wiped at all. I would like to see a preist dps, tank and heal...would also like to see a warrior heal. I might not be able to heal as well as a preist, or tank quite as well as a prot warrior, but I can do it, without a hiccup. I would also place a bet that I can also tank better than a ret specced pally with no shield. Sure, they can try and tank, but they took a ton of mana to keep alive. None of these people had shields, remember that.
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