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Arthas: A Discussion
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Post by
Patty
However, Stratholme was a city built within a castle, and could be used to contain everything within it perhaps?
Post by
Morec0
However, Stratholme was a city built within a castle, and could be used to contain everything within it perhaps?
- True, but Arthas knew that he needed to act quickly, he was a bit violent from even the first part of the campaign. The dissicion to kill came only natrually to him
- Way to go Arthas!
Post by
Overhaul
Arthas was caught in a hard decision. He chose to kill the entire city, and by no means a humane way. In an age of using artillery and firearms, killing people doesn’t seem like it would pose such a damaging effect on a person, after all, you probably won’t see that person you had killed. But think of the damage it would normally do to a person that is actually facing a person and killing them by the sword. The Japanese did that during their genocide act on the Chinese, and looking at pictures of them, they are scary to look at, smiling holding a human head.
Poisoning the town’s water supply, or closing the city off and burning it would have had a less of a psychological effect, yet still the same final effect of killing the city’s people. Seeing Arthas doing it by hand shows this how lost he was. Arthas would have been better off allocating his efforts on towns not affected yet, and working on reuniting the alliance in a campaign against the scourge. Instead he chose to waste time in a petty fight that would lead to little. Who cares if the entire city became undead, it is easy to avoid walking into a large undead army, large armies move slowly.
Undead also pose little threat to a fortified city or town due to them lacking the intelligence to breach a wall without outside influence. The campaign should have aimed at killing the leadership of the scourge, and limiting their power, not killing the minions.
Yes wars are done, but wouldn’t they end sooner if you could simply kill their leader? What would the Nazis have done if Hitler was killed in a bombing raid on Berlin? The war would had ended, the Nazis would have lost its chain of command, or at least they would had been in disarray as the commanders fought for control.
Arthas and the paladins were concentrating on the wrong things. So should he have killed the innocent people? No, he should have attended more important matters, which would have been TRULY saving the lives of millions. Besides, attacking commanders and leaders force the leadership to pull their forces back to defend themselves, protecting the home front. So attacking leaders of the enemy takes the stress off the unaffected.
A Sherman style campaign on the scrouge would lead to a scared leadership of the scrouge, the burning of infected food, and the killing of the cult of the damned. The lich king fears death like anyone else, let him pull all his forces back to protect himself. The real threat though was the cult of the damned, killing them and destroying the cauldrons should have held a high priority.
In summary: Arthas and the paladins should have done an offensive campaign from the start, but instead did a defensive campaign which only leads to the enemy slowly penetrating though. The best defense is a good offense. Messing with the city was a defense. They should have brought the fight to the culprits from the start.
Edit: Sorry about the wall of text, and added a summary.
Post by
Septimus
*snip*
Now fix the wall of text, and the discussion can continue as you present many good and valid reasons.
Post by
Eledhwen
Arthas would have been better off allocating his efforts on towns not affected yet, and working on reuniting the alliance in a campaign against the scourge..
This. THIS is what Arthas should've done. The culling of stratholme, while having a logical basis, was an illogical act in a haphazard campaign. Yes, Arthas had to digest the horrors of what he was witnessing. When he and Jaina set out to investigate the plague the last thing they expected was to meet up with an army of Undead. Upon figuring out what was going on and having killed Kel Thuzad the logical thing to do would've been to have reported back to Terenas and then set out to do what was accomplished in the Second War. Reunite the alliance, set out a campaign to take on the Scourge in a logical and orderly fashion, just as was done with the Orcish Horde during the Second War.
Unfortunately Arthas wasn't Anduin Lothar or his father Terenas. Had cooler heads been in charge then perhaps things would've been different. He
reacted
rather than acted and in the end his lack of control over his emotions was his undoing. Stratholme was the beginning of the end but he compounded it by then going after Mal'ganis without having any kind of workable plan. He was taunted and tricked by Mal'ganis to go to Northrend. Did he ever stop to consider what would happen when he got there? Obviously not. He met Muradin and found out about Frostmourne and THAT became his obsession. He pretty much reacted like a child and leaped forward blindly out of fear and anger.
The culling of Stratholme did have a logical basis. I could actually understand the reasoning behind it. However the problem was that Arthas was long past being logical and reasonable. He was blind and emotional and made a rash decision. In the end he became the very monster he was fighting against, just as Medivh had predicted.
Post by
383494
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Eledhwen
Imagine, Arthas, Uther and Jaina arrive at the gates of Stratholme, leading the Knights or the Silver Hand, along with the rest of the armies. They realise that the inhabitants may be infected. Instead of choosing their slaughter, Arthas decides in an instant: "Jaina, take the army and evacuate the city! Get everyone away from here to safety as fast as you can! Uther, form up the Knights, we will buy these people time to escape, with our lives if the light demands it!"
The scourge charge onwards, and many of the townsfolk perish in the assault and from the plague afterwards. But many survive too: Jaina is bolstered by the courage of the Prince and discovers a means to identify those who will fall to the plague. They are quarantined from the rest of the refugees until a solution can be found, or at least until they are die and can be given a fitting cremation.
First, there was no time for any of this. Stratholme was the second largest city in Lordaeron. We aren't talking about a few farms here...we are talking about a large city. Within a short time of being infected the victims died of the plague and they rose up right afterwards. Even as Arthas was culling Statholme those affected with the plague were turning into undead. To think that Jaina would be able to identifify those who WILL fall to the plague in such a short time is conjecture. It's not based on what was actually happening at the time. Fact is, events were moving along too fast. If a purge was to be done it had to be done before Mal'ganis could raise the newly dead as Scourge. That was the purpose of the purge..To prevent those that were infected from becoming Scourge.
IMO the choice was to purge the city or to take an aggressive stance later against the Scourge once more forces could be brought in. In other words, give up on Stratholme and take things from there. I think the best course of action would've been to report back to Antonidas and King Terenas and marshal whatever forces that could be gathered up. This would include Humans, Dalaran, the Elves and Dwarves as well. It could've been done. But Arthas was a prisoner of his emotions and didn't think things through and Jaina and Uther chose to walk away, which also left Arthas to his doom.
I do think your point about Terenas making Arthas become a Paladin is valid. For one, I don't think Arthas had a deep desire to serve the Light as a Paladin, as evidenced in ROTLK when he was undergoing his ceremony to become a Paladin and there was a hesitation before he was blessed by the Light. Obviously the Light had reservations about him. What should've been taught to him was to take hold of his emotions and think things through and train him as a stategist and King, rather than warrior-priest. I agree that the goals of Paladin and King aren't compatible in many cases.
Unfortunately in trying to be both, Arthas was sucessful as neither Paladin or leader. He failed and became easily manipulated by Ner'zhul and in the end was destined to be the instrument of destruction to his land and his people.
Post by
Adamsm
Kinda ironic eh, they go through all the effort to "save" Stratholme, and it ends up falling to both the Scourge led by Rivendare and the Scarlets led by the Dreadlord.
Post by
Eledhwen
Ah yes..which goes to say that "Haste makes waste". In his haste to "save" Stratholme Arthas not only doomed the city, but his very soul and condemned his people to the very fate he was trying to save them from.
Sad, so sad...
Post by
374045
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Morec0
- Everyone has a destiny, Arthas included. As I see it the events that happened during his life were predetermined and he was only acting accordingly with his path. Just as Jaina fled to Kalimador and Uther died trying to protect his freinds remains - as was their fate - Arthas became the lord of the dead. There is nothing ironic or sad about it, it is just the way fate wrote itself out for the Paladin-Prince of Lordaeron.
Post by
Skreeran
I don't think that, that would imply that no one has a choice in anything. For example, Darion's choice to kill himself to free his father's spirit was predetermined and he was only acting in accordance with his fate. There's nothing selfless or loving about it, it's just the way fate wrote itself out for the Ashbringer's son.
Detracts a whole lot of meaning from the whole ordeal, wouldn't you say?
Post by
barthem
arthas did the right to purge stratholme if you ask me, what else should he do than, just sit down and wait untill whole stratholme turned in an undead army?
no lets say your arthas, what should you do?
the vilagers were beyond saving becouse they were already infected, nothing could safed them.
so you got a few options
1kill the vilagers( letssay it took 60 min before they turned in the undead)
2 do nothing and kill the villagers when the have turned in to the undead(suecide if you ask me,a small army of knights vs a wholecity undead)
3 try to safe the villagers by telling them to burn them self dead so they dont become undead (yea they would realy burn themself alive)
or 4 flee and warn the king, and come back with a huge army add your back to slay the undead villagers(than was option 1 better if you ask me)
and than the qoustion that he betrayed the order of the silver hand
or he had kilt the villagers, and "betrayed" the rules of a paladin
or he tryed to cure the people with litle chance and probaly kilt when they turned in the undead(
this qoustchain shows that youcant cure the plague easy
)
EDIT srry for my bad grammar
Post by
387747
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Eledhwen
a
1kill the villagers( letssay it took 60 min before they turned in the undead)
2 do nothing and kill the villagers when the have turned in to the undead(suicide if you ask me,a small army of knights vs a wholecity undead)
3 try to safe the villagers by telling them to burn them self dead so they don't become undead (yea they would really burn themself alive)
or 4 flee and warn the king, and come back with a huge army add your back to slay the undead villagers (than was option 1 better if you ask me)
I go with number 4. Stratholme was a lost cause. Arthas wasn't using his head but reacting out of rage, vengeance and pure emotion. The logical thing to do was to strategize and get reinforcments and fight the war as it should've been fought rather than commit senseless slaughter.
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
barthem
omg necro
On Topic: Let's say that, if my character was there: He would've supported Arthas somehow, even if trying to convince Uther that it was the best they could do. Because... sincerely it was.
the knights foot soldiers gunman and other soldiers followed arthas only becouse they were loyal to him, refuse to do it would be betray lordaeron
Post by
Skreeran
If my character were there, she would have been shot for being an orc.
Post by
Adamsm
My draenei would be attacked for being a monster.
Post by
327680
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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