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Does 2.4 make Ret a viable end game DPS choice?
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Post by
145799
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Post by
106896
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Post by
Avallen
The problem I've noticed with ret paladins..
If they're geared, they're threat-capped.
If they're not geared, they don't have a chance at DPS.
So take that as you will. They're still excellent DPS, and do bring utility, but they are restricted to some extent.
Post by
80968
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Post by
Philmckraken
My friend plays a rogue and feels that mana dependant melee is a terrible idea, ofcourse he has not played a paladin
Or a mage...
Basically, your friend is an idiot. Ask him what he brings to a raid that helps the rest of the party...Oh, that's right, not a thing. He can sap, he can stab, and he can die quickly if he pulls aggro.
Like any other Paladin, a retridin enhances the ability of everyone else in the party, so while the rogue's personal DPS will be higher, factor in the additional damage/healing/etc that everyone else is capable of with the a retridin around, and you'd wonder why you ever saw rogues anywhere except BGs.
Other than the lack of a CC ability, I think a paladin is better for any group/raid than a rogue. Then again, I am slightly biased...
Post by
aesyl
I've been raiding as ret since 2.3, ret is definitely raid-viable but there are a couple things to keep in mind. Ret scales with gear more than other dps classes. If you're wearing blues, you're not likely to come anywhere near the other classes in dps. Until you get to the BT/Hyjal level you're more of a utility spec that happens to bring some of his own dps. Mana can be a problem, you have to train your holy/prot pallies to put up JoW, it makes a huge difference. And on Kaz'rogal, you pretty much just have to sit on the bench. You're a walking bomb in that fight. You also need a good melee group to maximize your dps. Ideally, you'd want a rogue, feral druid, dps war, enh shammy and ret pally. With that group makeup I go from around 850-900 dps to around 1350.
http://wowwebstats.com/ssnww6wxfh6ku
Here's a WWS report from a recent raid, I know Shade of Akama isn't really a good fight to show how you'd do relative to all other dps, but it's the only one I have a report up for atm.
Also, something to note is that Horde retadins are slightly better in PvE than Alliance due to Seal of Blood.
Post by
ArgentSun
And due to silence, which is more like a spell interrupt. We are all sick of those pyroblasts, why not stop one of them.
My opinion on the topic is going to be a little vague, because I've never been retribution, but I can say this - Blizzard is definitely working into making all dps equally valuable. You may not have as much DPS as a warlock or a mage, but hey, you can survive more than one hit, you can buff the whole raid, increasing their damage and healing dramatically, you can prevent wipe. If retribution is something you like, go for it. WotLK will fix some things hopefully.
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137678
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125385
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65116
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Post by
omglaserzpewpew
Rogues can vanish, we can bubble.
Play Paladins much?
Post by
Philmckraken
If you have good +spell damage, you will do great DPS. You have to remember that VERY few mobs are resistant to holy damage and it bypasses armor where warrs, shams, and rogues get reduced. Spell damage is more important than melee damage for pallys. And, as stated above, if you pull aggro, you shouldn't be one-shotted.
This statment is true for PROT paladins only. If you're RET, like the title of the post says, you want stam, str, int, and hit/crit rating.
Holy damage from Seal of Command and Crusader Strike (because you're not using anything else for damage) are based on a % of your weapon damage, which you can increase by stacking strength, not spell damage...Still with me, Slokov?
Spell damage is better than str for tanks, because prot paladins just can't do much white damage...Oh, and that spell called Righteous Fury only increases the threat generated by holy damage.
Post by
Dartanyon
I'm a prot paladin and to be honest I would most likely choose most other dps classes over a ret pally. Paladins provide great utility to the party but due to them being heavily gear dependent you're taking a risk by bringing one. Not to mention you have to throw in the skill factor. I'm sure ret paladins can do a decent ammount of DPS but only if they're geared and have a skilled player behind them.
You can be sure that if I'm putting a group together and I have the option between a ret pally and a rogue, I'm gonna choose the rogue. I tried ret once at 70, got some basic gear for it, didnt like how gear dependent it was and switched back to prot.
Oh and for a litte reference to the guy that said a ret paladin is better in a raid than a rogue...last night I was 2nd in DPS on my hunter in Gruul's Lair and guess who was #1? A rogue. Guess how far down the ret pally was? We didn't have one.
Post by
Philmckraken
I'm a prot paladin and to be honest I would most likely choose most other dps classes over a ret pally. Paladins provide great utility to the party but due to them being heavily gear dependent you're taking a risk by bringing one. Not to mention you have to throw in the skill factor. I'm sure ret paladins can do a decent ammount of DPS but only if they're geared and have a skilled player behind them.
You can be sure that if I'm putting a group together and I have the option between a ret pally and a rogue, I'm gonna choose the rogue. I tried ret once at 70, got some basic gear for it, didnt like how gear dependent it was and switched back to prot.
Oh and for a litte reference to the guy that said a ret paladin is better in a raid than a rogue...last night I was 2nd in DPS on my hunter in Gruul's Lair and guess who was #1? A rogue. Guess how far down the ret pally was? We didn't have one.
I'm not seeing the great "risk" involved in bringing a ret paladin. Gear dependent? Check out their gear first. Skilled? Every class requires a skilled player to be truly helpful.
As for my post regarding a ret paladin being better than a rogue in a raid, if you read it again, you will notice that I did not say a ret paladin would out-DPS a rogue, hunter, or any other class. All else being equal, hunters and rogues are DPS
classes,
while retribution is a DPS
specialization
of a class. A ret paladin will enhance the abilities of everyone else in their party/raid, while still putting out a good amount of damage. Rogues will out-DPS us any day of the week, but they bring nothing else to the table. Since instances and raids require teamwork above all, why not bring another member of the class that's designed for it?
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65116
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Post by
Macanam
It's probably just me having superior gear (though i don't think so personally) but i frequently beat the rogues in my guild on DPS.
That or the rogues are a bit rubbish, but they are all combat swords or daggers. In fact in SSC the other day the only person to beat me was a beastmastery hunter so i'm not entirely convinced by that argument.
But as i say, that's only the rogues in MY guild, not really tried against anyone else.
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