Is The US Economy Ever Going To Turn Around?

Post by Gone

So let me start off by saying that i really dont have any education in economics or US policy or anything like that. Im also going to say that its past 2am and Im up all night caus I had a neurotic panic attack about my root canal tomorrow (Im very skiddish about the dentist).

So by some bizzar twist I find myself reading online about the current economy to try and asuage my current nervs by reading about other things.

So that being said what do yall think about the current state of affairs here in the US? A lot of people are getting really fed up and weary of the downturn in the economy the last decade or so. So does anybody think its going to be getting any better? Any worse? Why or why not?

Post by Levarus

Post by Magician22773

Eventually, yes. The question is when.

Its no secret how I feel about Obama. But politics aside, I can;t see how anyone can think he is actually "good" for the US.

The current US economy is about as screwed up as it can get. The current economic policy is to just spend as much as you want with no regard to deficit, and after 2 wars, and 2 fiscally bad presidents, we have just about reached critical mass.

We have got to get an administration in place that will reverse the current course, or we WILL reach a point where the country goes "bankrupt"

Sadly, I don't think Romney is the guy that will reverse it, but I think he may at least get it in "neutral". We actually need someone like Scott Walker (Minn. Governor) that will make unpopular and drastic polical changes to get things moving in the right direction again.

We need to stop trying to support every needy person in the country for an indefinate period of time. We need to cut unemployment benefits....99+ weeks of being supported by the government is just insane. We need to limit welfare benefits to those that actually can't support themselves, not all those that just won't..

We need to bust nearly all the public sector unions, and a good portion of the private sector ones as well. Unions were started as a way to protect workers from being taken advantage of by crooked employers. Now, they are huge political machines that have inflated the costs of running our country to a stupid level. Public employees on average earn 50% or more than people doing the same job in non-union private sector companies. And they have unrealistic, lifelong benefits after retirement.

We have got to stop "investing" billions of dollars in experimental ideas like solar and wind power, and stop regulating current energy comanies out of business. Yes, we need to work on developing future ideas, but not right now. Not while we are essentially printing money to run the country.

We need to focus on defending our country, and supporting our allies, but we also need to stop trying to police the entire world.

And we need to cut out all the "Bridge to Nowhere", pork spending in Congress. Sorry, but your state's Art Museum funds are gonna have to wait until we get our budget in order. No more research on how whales breed, no more funds for building biking trails or high speed trains....not now.

Post by Levarus

Post by Rystrave

It will, but it won't happen just like that.

I can't wait for it turn around so I can get my town back to what it was. People are flocking here for the abundance of high paying jobs, not realizing that our infrastructure is faltering due to the lack of housing, increase in traffic (never would have thought I'd have to deal with traffic jams where I am!), outrageous rent/housing prices, the sewage draining not being to handle the influx, etc.

Post by Levarus

Post by Adamsm

Because even the Great Depression turned around eventually.

Post by Magician22773

We need to focus on defending our country, and supporting our allies, but we also need to stop trying to police the entire world.

You just contradicted yourself. Supporting our Allies would involve getting in abunch of affairs overseas, enforcing our rule, creating unneccessary conflict, that would, in the end, cause even more to view us as police of the world.

"Defending our country" ?

We have one of thee, if not the, strongest militaries in the entire world, we posses a stronger defense than the majority of other countries in this world - You suggest more spending in defensive systems, which would result in more debt.

More spending = More debt

Supporting our allies, and not trying to police the world are not a contradiction. Supporting Israel against Iran is not the same as helping Libya oust Gaddafi, Egypt overthrow its government,and all the other "nation building" conflicts that we get involved in. As a Superpower, we are not going to be able to just "take care of ourselves", nor should we. But we could tone down a lot of defense spending if we let some of these conflicts just resolve themselves, even if the resolution is not exactly what we would like to see. Egypt is a perfect example of why we really need to stay out of other countries business. We assisted in overthrowing one regime, only to have the Muslim Brotherhood elected to power.

The answer to defense is not an easy one, and I don't claim to have even the slightest knowledge of what we could do in some of these cases. Our economy in intertwined with so many other countries, and we also are the country that so many others turn to for humanitarian aid, that we could never just cut off all aid.

And I do agree that there are billions that could be cut from military spending and we could remain just as powerful as we are today. But there are billions more that can be cut from other areas as well, and if they are going to start cutting defense (which is one the top things government SHOULD be spending money on), than they damn well better at least cut equal amount out of things like "the arts" (which really is NOT the governments responsibility).

Just a few examples I found of how wasteful government spending can be.

The Congressional budget includes $440,000 annually to have attendants push buttons on the fully automated Capitol Hill elevators used by Representatives and Senators.

The Pentagon and Central Intelligence Agency have channeled some $11 million to psychics who might provide special insights about various foreign threats.

The Department of Education has spent $34 million supposedly helping Americans become better shoppers and homemakers.

Social Security spends about $20 million a year on SSI checks for federal prisoners, and $360 million a year on people that are "disabled" by alcoholism or drug abuse.

The Pentagon has an “operational support airlift” consisting of some 500 airplanes and 100 helicopters for flying military brass and civilian bureaucrats on 1,800 trips a month—costing taxpayers $380 million a year.

The Pentagon spent $5.1 million to build a new 18-hole golf course at Andrews Air Force Base in suburban Maryland, which already has two.

This is just a tiny drop in the bucket, but it shows just how wasteful our spending is.

Post by 557473

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Post by 204878

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Post by Levarus

Supporting Israel against Iran

That's silly. Israel has at least one hundred nukes and spends $13 billion on defence (not including the $3 billion the US spent on them in 2011), Iran has no nukes and spends less than half of that. They don't need any help, despite what they want you to believe.

^^, this, so much.

Post by Magician22773

Yeah, Israel does have the capability to protect itself pretty well. But they also are one of the most vulnerable allies we have. They are a small nation, surrounded by other countries that have consistently vowed to wipe them off the map.

Considering that Obama spent 6.5 Billion on "Green Energy" companies, I don't see the 3 billion in military aide to Israel as being a total "waste".

CBS News counted 12 clean energy companies that are having trouble after collectively being approved for more than $6.5 billion in federal assistance. Five have filed for bankruptcy: The junk bond-rated Beacon, Evergreen Solar, SpectraWatt, AES’ subsidiary Eastern Energy and Solyndra.

Post by MyTie

Post by 207044

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Post by Orranis

Worse, inflation grows, debt grows. Capitalism isn't cutting it, our current leaders are elected by the mass who base their votes on charisma, not ideals. We are being demoralized economically, we have grown comfortable, complacent, it's time for a change. A BIG one. However outlandish that may sound...

I agree with everything, except for the jab against capitalism.

Inflation grows, largly because of debt. World leaders are rock stars, instead of leaders. We do have a demoralized economy, and we have grown complacent. It is time for a change....

However, I don't understand why the blame rests on capitalism. Banks made bad decisions. IF they had been allowed to fail, due to those bad decisions, then competitors would have picked up the slack... competitors with better business sense. Instead, the taxpayers bailed out the irresponsible bets of the banks. So, if the banks had won the irresponsible bets, the borrowers (taxpayers) would have lost money by being charged for overpriced mortgages. If the banks had lost, which they did, government gives the taxpayers money to the banks anyway. It's a win win for them and a lose lose for us. Take government out of the equation, and banks will no longer make those bets. That is capitalism. That is what we need more of, not less of. We need less government spending, not more. We need less government stifling regulation, not more. What we need is to use market forces, not try to manipulate them with corrupt politicians.

Give me a go here, I'm not completely 100% on this topic:
Well you also have to consider that all the people invested in those banks will, not only go hungry and potentially homeless, but also completely cease spending. Without spending (also known as demand), producers will be forced to cut production, also known as a loss of jobs, and then the process continues. That's exactly how the Great Depression started.

I agree we need less Government spending. A lot of what Magician said I completely agree with. However, first of all, if we cut our military expenditure in half, we would still be spending more on our military than any country in the world. In fact, if you combined the next thirteen highest military spenders, America's military budget is still leading by...17.8 billion dollars.

Also, MyTie, banks will speculate, even in a free-market economy, because they have to generate a profit while allowing for interest.

Source.

Supporting Israel against Iran

That's silly. Israel has at least one hundred nukes and spends $13 billion on defence (not including the $3 billion the US spent on them in 2011), Iran has no nukes and spends less than half of that. They don't need any help, despite what they want you to believe.

^^, this, so much.

And again this. Really, overthrowing dictators is none of our concern, and yet the controversial and morally gray, not to mention hilarious, Israeli aid, is a necessity?

Another thing I don't understand is a wish to build a 'balanced budget' while cutting tax revenue. Public hospitals, schools, libraries, and so on have got to go, but if the wealthiest members of society are getting taxed more it's going to lead to an economic collapse? It's not as if by being taxed at higher rates they'll stop trying to make money.

Post by MyTie

Give me a go here, I'm not completely 100% on this topic:
Well you also have to consider that all the people invested in those banks will, not only go hungry and potentially homeless, but also completely cease spending. Without spending (also known as demand), producers will be forced to cut production, also known as a loss of jobs, and then the process continues. That's exactly how the Great Depression started.

I agree we need less Government spending. A lot of what Magician said I completely agree with. However, first of all, if we cut our military expenditure in half, we would still be spending more on our military than any country in the world. In fact, if you combined the next thirteen highest military spenders, America's military budget is still leading by...17.8 billion dollars.

Also, MyTie, banks will speculate, even in a free-market economy, because they have to generate a profit while allowing for interest.

Source.

I agree with most of what you are saying. Military expenditures need to be slashed. I agree that when businesses fail, they will invest less, which will lead to job losses. However, that is the nature of venture capitalism. Failure is part of that process, and it will not automatically lead to the great depression when large companies, banks included, fail. Competition more equipped to handle the market demands will step in. Further, I know that banks will speculate. I'm not saying they should stop speculating. I'm saying that they would speculate more responsibly if they knew the government wouldn't hedge their bets. If a bank knew it would fail if it lost on its investment, it would be more careful in what it invested in (in this instance, sub-prime mortgages). That is capitalism. That's why I think government intervention in the market is what encourages these irresponsible and destructive actions that lead to recessions in the first place.And again this. Really, overthrowing dictators is none of our concern, and yet the controversial and morally gray, not to mention hilarious, Israeli aid, is a necessity?

Another thing I don't understand is a wish to build a 'balanced budget' while cutting tax revenue. Public hospitals, schools, libraries, and so on have got to go, but if the wealthiest members of society are getting taxed more it's going to lead to an economic collapse? It's not as if by being taxed at higher rates they'll stop trying to make money.Name our middle east allies. Can you count them all? Probably on one finger. Perhaps we should support our only ally there.

Post by Levarus

Mytie. I would quote your earlier post but it's very long, so others who would wish to understand the reasons for this post will have to read the whole page.

Capitalism results in competition over wages, and, whether business owners like it or not, governmental interferance. Minimum wage being one of them. Minimum wage is non-existant in some overseas countries or extremely low, so companies pack their bags and head on over to places like China - where they can pay their workers a dime per hour rather than 7 dollars. What ensues is money being maked not for the US, but for a completely different country.

Which is rather detrimental, if I do say so myself.

Post by Orranis

Give me a go here, I'm not completely 100% on this topic:
Well you also have to consider that all the people invested in those banks will, not only go hungry and potentially homeless, but also completely cease spending. Without spending (also known as demand), producers will be forced to cut production, also known as a loss of jobs, and then the process continues. That's exactly how the Great Depression started.

I agree we need less Government spending. A lot of what Magician said I completely agree with. However, first of all, if we cut our military expenditure in half, we would still be spending more on our military than any country in the world. In fact, if you combined the next thirteen highest military spenders, America's military budget is still leading by...17.8 billion dollars.

Also, MyTie, banks will speculate, even in a free-market economy, because they have to generate a profit while allowing for interest.

Source.

I agree with most of what you are saying. Military expenditures need to be slashed. I agree that when businesses fail, they will invest less, which will lead to job losses. However, that is the nature of venture capitalism. Failure is part of that process, and it will not automatically lead to the great depression when large companies, banks included, fail. Competition more equipped to handle the market demands will step in. Further, I know that banks will speculate. I'm not saying they should stop speculating. I'm saying that they would speculate more responsibly if they knew the government wouldn't hedge their bets. If a bank knew it would fail if it lost on its investment, it would be more careful in what it invested in (in this instance, sub-prime mortgages). That is capitalism. That's why I think government intervention in the market is what encourages these irresponsible and destructive actions that lead to recessions in the first place.

Alternatively, we can have government intervention focused around preventing such reckless speculation. While the latter choice ensures (hopefully) the lack of reckless speculation, the former only works in theory and hopes that banks and bankers are smart enough to think similarly, or not willing to take huge risks.

Also, it's not just business failure. It's specifically bank failure. While business failure tanks investment into that business, banks are just as much an investment as a necessity to storing your money. Nobody puts all their money into a sole business, but they will into banks.

And again this. Really, overthrowing dictators is none of our concern, and yet the controversial and morally gray, not to mention hilarious, Israeli aid, is a necessity?

Another thing I don't understand is a wish to build a 'balanced budget' while cutting tax revenue. Public hospitals, schools, libraries, and so on have got to go, but if the wealthiest members of society are getting taxed more it's going to lead to an economic collapse? It's not as if by being taxed at higher rates they'll stop trying to make money.Name our middle east allies. Can you count them all? Probably on one finger. Perhaps we should support our only ally there.

Surely there are countries on this list that could use an additional three billion dollars a year more than Israel.

Also, the taxes argument.

Post by 301983

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Post by Adamsm

And it's not a coincidence that every time USA was on economic crisis, shortly after (or before) a war was engulfed, just like the Great Depression.

Holy tinfoil hat Batman....you do realize that in both World Wars, the US didn't join till about 2 years in right?

Is The US Economy Ever Going To Turn Around?

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