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Garrosh stronger than Deathwing?
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Post by
Adamsm
Varian represents prejudice with reason, defense of his people, drive to safeguard
Um...bull @#$%? Varian is just as prejudice as Garrosh is, for pretty much the exact same reasons.
Post by
Behelich
prejudice with reason
And this does not strike you as contradictory?
Prejudice:
An adverse judgment or opinion formed beforehand or without knowledge of the facts.
Any preconceived opinion or feeling, whether positive or negative.
An irrational hostile attitude, fear or hatred towards a particular group, race or religion.
The damage caused by such fear or hatred.
(obsolete) Knowledge formed in advance; foresight, presaging.
Post by
Lordplatypus
Is it?
He's a freaking slave to an orc, he got his father killed by an orc, his city razed by orcs.
Does garrosh have those?
EDIT:
prejudice with reason
And this does not strike you as contradictory?
Prejudice:
An adverse judgment or opinion formed beforehand or without knowledge of the facts.
Any preconceived opinion or feeling, whether positive or negative.
An irrational hostile attitude, fear or hatred towards a particular group, race or religion.
The damage caused by such fear or hatred.
(obsolete) Knowledge formed in advance; foresight, presaging.
Bah Grammar.
Post by
Rankkor
And BTW folks, I think we can already see who's gonna be the one to kill Garrosh.
http://ptr.wowdb.com/quests/33000-saurfang-warrior
Saurfang is back.
He vowed to kill Garrosh himself if he led the horde down a dark path, before varian even knew who the hell Garrosh was, before Vol'jin made his own promise, before anyone else had any sort of beef against this meathead.
And even Varian respects Saurfang. EVERYONE respects Saurfang. (May the naaru have mercy on your soul if you cross him)
Post by
Adamsm
Is it?
He's a freaking slave to an orc, he got his father killed by an orc, his city razed by orcs.And yet...None of the current Orcs did any of those things; remember, Varian went off on Thrall about what happened to him in his past....you know, the Orc raised by a person who had him beaten nearly to death, forced him to fight for his life daily, saw his foster sister's severed head thrown down to him by that self-same bastard.; and yet, Thrall does not hate all Humans, so go figure.
Post by
Behelich
And BTW folks, I think we can already see who's gonna be the one to kill Garrosh.
http://ptr.wowdb.com/quests/33000-saurfang-warrior
Saurfang is back.
He vowed to kill Garrosh himself if he led the horde down a dark path, before varian even knew who the hell Garrosh was, before Vol'jin made his own promise, before anyone else had any sort of beef against this meathead.
And even Varian respects Saurfang. EVERYONE respects Saurfang. (May the naaru have mercy on your soul if you cross him)
HA!
Called it, too
!
Jokes about Saurfang being Azeroth's Chuck Norris aside, Varian does respect Saurfang, and can even sympathize as they both are fathers and Saurfang lost his son.
Post by
Lordplatypus
Azeroth's Chuck Norris
Then Crowley is Azeroth's Mister T.
Post by
Rankkor
Is it?
He's a freaking slave to an orc, he got his father killed by an orc, his city razed by orcs.And yet...None of the current Orcs did any of those things; remember, Varian went off on Thrall about what happened to him in his past....you know, the Orc raised by a person who had him beaten nearly to death, forced him to fight for his life daily, saw his foster sister's severed head thrown down to him by that self-same bastard.; and yet, Thrall does not hate all Humans, so go figure.
In before his only defence against this argument is:
HUR DUR, BUT THRALL IS METZEN'S PET!!
=P we all know you wanna say it platypus, just get it out already.
And BTW folks, I think we can already see who's gonna be the one to kill Garrosh.
http://ptr.wowdb.com/quests/33000-saurfang-warrior
Saurfang is back.
He vowed to kill Garrosh himself if he led the horde down a dark path, before varian even knew who the hell Garrosh was, before Vol'jin made his own promise, before anyone else had any sort of beef against this meathead.
And even Varian respects Saurfang. EVERYONE respects Saurfang. (May the naaru have mercy on your soul if you cross him)
HA!
Called it, too
!
Jokes about Saurfang being Azeroth's Chuck Norris aside, Varian does respect Saurfang, and can even sympathize as they both are fathers and Saurfang lost his son.
Yep. Can you picture it? Varian going in for the kill, and saurfang calmly says "stand aside, he's mine". At those words, ANYONE with a pulse (And common sense) will do so.
"I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
Post by
Lordplatypus
HUR DUR, BUT THRALL IS METZEN'S PET!
Happy now?
To be honest, I was gonna say that Blackmoore is one alcoholic @#$%^&*. Varian and multiple indivual orcs roflkill and roflslaughter stuff.
Plus can thrall be racist against taretha loveinterest?
Post by
Behelich
Wc3 Thrall was awesome and nothing will take that away from us.
Yep. Can you picture it? Varian going in for the kill, and saurfang calmly says "stand aside, he's mine". At those words, ANYONE with a pulse (And common sense) will do so.
I feel the need to add that Varian will do so out of respect and not fear, but other than that, I agree. It would do good for the relationships between the Alliance and the Horde, too - nominally, Garrosh is still the Warchief, and a community elder rather than a foreign invader killing him will be better for morale.
Post by
Lordplatypus
Wc3 Thrall was awesome
Really? I don't really think he was all that, low hp, slow attack, wimpy nuke.
All I used him as was a overglorified radar.
Post by
Adamsm
To be honest, I was gonna say that Blackmoore is one alcoholic @#$%^&*. Varian and multiple indivual orcs roflkill and roflslaughter stuff.
Plus can thrall be racist against taretha sister?Fixed that for you. But please, dispute the fact that none of the current Orcs in the Horde were responsible for any of the things in Varian's past. Even Rehgar wasn't a member of the Horde at the time he had Varian as a gladiator...and considered the way that Lo'gosh was treated, up to and including the fact that Rehgar helped him escape well....
Post by
Behelich
Wc3 Thrall was awesome
Really? I don't really think he was all that, low hp, slow attack, wimpy nuke.
All I used him as was a overglorified radar.
Ult that destroys the enemy base, very powerful summons...
Post by
Rankkor
HUR DUR, BUT THRALL IS METZEN'S PET!
There there, Feeling better?
You had to get it out at some point.
Wc3 Thrall was awesome and nothing will take that away from us.
Yep. Can you picture it? Varian going in for the kill, and saurfang calmly says "stand aside, he's mine". At those words, ANYONE with a pulse (And common sense) will do so.
I feel the need to add that Varian will do so out of respect and not fear, but other than that, I agree.
It would do good for the relationships between the Alliance and the Horde, too - nominally, Garrosh is still the Warchief, and a community elder rather than a foreign invader killing him will be better for morale.
This is very VERY true. And its the biggest reason why I feel its impossible anyone from the alliance is the one to do it.
This was explored too in Avatar (no not the james cameron movie, the awesome TV show)
The entire world was plunged into war with the Fire Nation vs the other nations, and while General Iroh had more than enough skill and power to challenge and defeat Firelord Ozai, he didn't do it, because history would just see it as a simple coup, a brother making his grab for power. The only way to end the war peacefully, is if the avatar was the one to do it.
His exact quote was:
Even if I did defeat Ozai, and I don't know that I could, it would be the wrong way to end the war. History would see it as just more senseless violence, a brother killing a brother to grab power. The only way for this war to end peacefully is for the Avatar to defeat the Fire Lord.
We have the same scenario. Lordplatypus, say what you want about varian, but even HE has admitted on several times that he DOES NOT want to wage war against the horde forever, he wants the war to end. If he (or anyone from the alliance) are the ones to dispatch garrosh, it will create more bad blood between the horde and the alliance. Nope, this will be resolved if its a horde figure (preferably one that is venerated respected and admired for BOTH SIDES) to do it.
And so far, the highest candidate on that list is Saurfang. The man is a living legend. Even thrall has had his bad moments with the alliance (his appointment of Garrosh as warchief being the main one, seriously T-man, WTF?) But saurfang? even soldiers in the alliance admire him. Don't believe me? the soldiers in the first alliance base in Howling Fjord comment how they wish Saurfang was there to help them with the vry'kul.
Post by
Lordplatypus
Ult that destroys the enemy base, very powerful summons...
Summons overall feel inferior to Jaina's water elemental. (How the hell does water piles do piercing damage though?).
Ult may be useful but a mountain king throwing a hammer shuts it down.
EDIT:
Just one problem, where does the alliance get it's victory? We've been promised a victory throughout the entirety of MoP only to have nothing.
Nope nada.
Where's our great victory OVER the horde? our vindication for being stepped over throughout cata?
Post by
Behelich
Just one problem, where does the alliance get it's victory? We've been promised a victory throughout the entirety of MoP only to have nothing.
Nope nada.
Where's our great victory OVER the horde? our vindication for being stepped over throughout cata?
Has it not occurred to you that an even greater victory will be overstepping the past hostilities and working together with the Horde for the better future of everyone?
Except the Forsaken, screw those guys sideways with a poleaxe.
Post by
Rankkor
Just one problem, where does the alliance get it's victory? We've been promised a victory throughout the entirety of MoP only to have nothing.
Nope nada.
Where's our great victory OVER the horde? our vindication for being stepped over throughout cata?
wow. You really don't realize just how good you have it. Ok I'll indulge you:
(((MASSIVE INHALE)))
###
Less than 15 min after starting the expansion we lose our airship while you keep yours and it becomes "The Proud Flagship of the Alliance" "The ship that took down Deathwing" "The warmachine that rains death and destruction upon the horde in every single engagement it happens"
###
We get to lose General Nazgrim, an orc that we've fought side-by-side with since WOTLK back when he was a simple sergeant, and we've grown to admire and respect him. And he's going the way of the do-do in 5.4 while you get to keep your spiffy Admiral Taylor, and Admiral Rogers.
###
We get to be kicked out of Dalaran like vermin, with a large chunk of our people locked inside as prisoners, and the alliance gains a frikking new capital.
###
We got to the island of thunder to get some sort of power against garrosh. What do we get? a golem's triple-A batteries. What does the alliance gets? THE POWER OF THE FRIKKING THUNDER KING!
###
Blizzard introduces 2 scenarios in 5.1 1 alliance and 1 horde. What's the alliance scenario about? Why of course you guys delivering a shameful defeat upon us by playing us like stupid fiddlesticks and luring us into the most obvious trap ever, and butcher our forces en masse in the most humilliating ways possible, including beign turned into exploding chickens. What do we get? hmm......... one of our most beloved leaders gets a knife in the neck, and we have to fight our own people
###
We get to watch as our beloved faction gets run to the ground, broken, splintered and shattered, as we get to be forced to work with a monster and a madman whether we want it or not, while you get to play the heroes, saving the world from our insanity.
###
We get to watch one of our beloved leaders, the same one who barely survived his encounter with death, PLEAD AND BEG to the alliance for help because we obviously are too weak to even put a dent on orgrimmar on our own. Great, we have to grovel and bow to our enemies in order to survive, while they get to smugly laugh and look at us with condencendance.
###
Alliance gets to canonically invade one of our capitals FOR THE SECOND TIME (first time was battle for undercity). How many times have we canonically invaded an alliance capital? hmmmmmm that's right, ZERO.
###
Ohh but it gets better, The final big bad of the expansion is a major horde figure, and the main cannon fodder you guys get to trample and butcher by the hundreds are horde soldiers, The Kor'kron, the supposedly ELITE of our forces. You get to walk all over our elite forces and kill them all as if they were simple redshirts. When was the last time we got to do that on a major scale, for a full expansion with the alliance's elite, 7th Legion? ohh that's right, NEVER, THAT'S WHEN.
###
Hell, even in gameplay you have been blessed. Remember Krasarang? I sure do. Quests get random every day, and sometimes, the alliance is attacking domination point, while other time the horde attacks lion's landing. When the alliance attacks us? they take over our docks, they have airships bombarding the CORE OF OUR BASE from the sky, and they set the outer perimeter on fire. When we get to "invade" lion's landing? Hmm............ we dont' get within a 100 yards of the damn thing. Because the most we get to do is fight in the barricades well outside your base. Great, you pwn our base, but we don't even get to be inside yours.
###
It gets better. Alliance rares in Lion's landing? priest one is in the middle of SIX MOBS. Warrior one is in the middle of SEVEN MOBS. Rogue one is right next to 2, and blinks away constantly so she ends up pulling 4 extras all the time. Horde rares in domination point? Rogue is in a tower in the middle of nowhere, so you allies can kill it without pesky mobs interrupting, Warrior one is right at the entrance with no backup save for 2 mobs that don't pull with him when you attack him from range, priest one is at the back of the base near a very convenient stump you can use to fight her with no extra adds.
Nice.
###
Even your major lore figures get love. Anduin is pretty much the protagonist of this expansion. he shows up in 60% of pandaria, and when he does, we horde players HAVE to work with him, and he ends up SAVING OUR ASSES. Yeah, goody. He's even part of the frikking legendary quest. Varian gets to be blue jesus, Jaina does nothing but kick major @ss (and be an @ss) and even Moira gets her own moment of awesome.
###
Our lore figures? Thrall goes MIA, Vol'jin gets a knife to the neck, and hten has to grovel and beg for the alliance to help us or face anihilation, Nazgrim gets killed, Garrosh is completely insane and treats us just as bad as our enemies, Baine barely gets a cameo, Sylvannas is MIA, Gallywix to this day hasn't even been SEEN so he may as well not exist. Pretty much the only Major Horde Figure to receive any form of love is Lor'themar and I'd say ABOUT DAMN TIME, given that he's been nothing but a joke since he was introduced. (Remember his pissed off quote? "DON'T TOUCH THE HAIR". Yeah, even when angry he's supposed to be comic relief)
(((MASSIVE EXHALE)))
Post by
Lordplatypus
What do we get? a golem's triple-A batteries. What does the alliance gets? THE POWER OF THE FRIKKING THUNDER KING!
We get a shiny lightning rod.
You get BLOOD OF A FRIKKING TITAN CONSTRUCT.
alliance's elite, 7th Legion?
You get to pwn them in a freaking starting quest
Hell, even in gameplay you have been blessed. Remember Krasarang? I sure do. Quests get random every day, and sometimes, the alliance is attacking domination point, while other time the horde attacks lion's landing. When the alliance attacks us? they take over our docks, they have airships bombarding the CORE OF OUR BASE from the sky, and they set the outer perimeter on fire. When we get to "invade" lion's landing? Hmm............ we dont' get within a 100 yards of the damn thing. Because the most we get to do is fight in the barricades well outside your base. Great, you pwn our base, but we don't even get to be inside yours.
We never get close, all we do is land and get roflpwnd before we reach the tower
We get to be kicked out of Dalaran like vermin, with a large chunk of our people locked inside as prisoners, and the alliance gains a frikking new capital.
We get a damn city nuked.
Less than 15 min after starting the expansion we lose our airship while you keep yours and it becomes "The Proud Flagship of the Alliance" "The ship that took down Deathwing" "The warmachine that rains death and destruction upon the horde in every single engagement it happens"
One of our gunships (the big ones are called gunships) gets turned into a giant plot device in the pandarens starting experience.
It gets better. Alliance rares in Lion's landing? priest one is in the middle of SIX MOBS. Warrior one is in the middle of SEVEN MOBS. Rogue one is right next to 2, and blinks away constantly so she ends up pulling 4 extras all the time. Horde rares in domination point? Rogue is in a tower in the middle of nowhere, so you allies can kill it without pesky mobs interrupting, Warrior one is right at the entrance with no backup save for 2 mobs that don't pull with him when you attack him from range, priest one is at the back of the base near a very convenient stump you can use to fight her with no extra adds.
The tower is a damn ganktrap, you have to either cap and risk flagging yourself or let a hordie sneak up and make guards ambush you, flagging you, forcing you to fight a rare, 4 elites and god knows how many hordies at once. The priest is right beside the elite guards, forgetting which side your on? GANKED
EDIT: And if you really want to argue about rares, the freaking Pyrestone Demolishor and it's sitting in the middle of the only way to get off the sunreaver base says hi.
Varian gets to be blue jesus
Wait what.
First off, he's not even blue.
Second, we have blue mohamed, aka velen.
We get to watch one of our beloved leaders, the same one who barely survived his encounter with death, PLEAD AND BEG to the alliance for help because we obviously are too weak to even put a dent on orgrimmar on our own. Great, we have to grovel and bow to our enemies in order to survive, while they get to smugly laugh and look at us with condencendance.
We have to risk our necks to arm a bunch of trolls who insult us at every turn.
Our lore figures? Thrall goes MIA, Vol'jin gets a knife to the neck, and
then
has to grovel and beg for the alliance to help us or face anihilation, Nazgrim gets killed, Garrosh is completely insane and treats us just as bad as our enemies, Baine barely gets a cameo, Sylvannas is MIA, Gallywix to this day hasn't even been SEEN so he may as well not exist. Pretty much the only Major Horde Figure to receive any form of love is Lor'themar and I'd say ABOUT DAMN TIME, given that he's been nothing but a joke since he was introduced. (Remember his pissed off quote? "DON'T TOUCH THE HAIR". Yeah, even when angry he's supposed to be comic relief)
Velen still isn't existant, Malfurion's off taking a damn nap again, Muradin and Falsta get one note about how $%^&*!y they are, Anduin has every bone in his body broken by a roid-raging orc.
Post by
Monday
### We get to be kicked out of Dalaran like vermin, with a large chunk of our people locked inside as prisoners, and the alliance gains a frikking new capital.
New capital? It was Alliance to begin with.
Post by
Atik
Yes, but Rank.
Our leaders punch Twilight Dragons in the face.
Alliance leaders have to clone themselves.
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