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Garrosh stronger than Deathwing?
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Post by
Rankkor
Varian's the only one to actually cross blades with garrosh, he's been garroshe's "Rival" for 2 expansions and overall Varian is what garrosh is aimed at.
Again, the only reason Varian has to fight garrosh is because he has a grudge, and has been in a pissing match with him for years. Plenty of other characters have far more personal reasons for wanting him gone.
As others have said, Vol'jin was personally almost killed by garrosh, and theres the hole crapstorm over in the echo isles were and what he's doing to the trolls right now. Jaina wants payback for theramoore, Baine wants payback for his dad, and Lor'themar wants payback for how he sacrificed his people in pandaria, and also forced them to steal the bell under penalty of death which led to the purge of dalaran.
You are seriously telling me that Varian is more justified than all of the above just because "they're rivals". Please.
It would be plain wrong to have Varian deliver the finishing blow when both him and his people are the LEAST affected by garrosh's malice. If anything, even Malfurion/Tyrande are more entitled given that Night Elves have been the main target of Garrosh's warmongering campaign. And that's saying something.
Post by
Lordplatypus
Plenty of other characters have far more personal reasons for wanting him gone.
Are you kidding me? Lets see herer, Do you know what garrosh did to anduin?
Anduin is the only joy in Varian's entire life. We all know that.
Vol'jin has no serious reason, garrosh sent assasins, big fing deal. baine and lor'themar already got what they wanted.
Varian is the only person justified.
You just have a hate-on for anything alliance.
Post by
Behelich
Plenty of other characters have far more personal reasons for wanting him gone.
Are you kidding me? Lets see herer, Do you know what garrosh did to anduin?
Anduin is the only joy in Varian's entire life. We all know that.
Vol'jin has no serious reason, garrosh sent assasins, big fing deal. baine and lor'themar already got what they wanted.
Varian is the only person justified.
You just have a hate-on for anything alliance.
Platypus, please don't go into personal attacks.
Varian is justified, but hardly the one most harmed by Garrosh's actions. Anduin got hurt, yes, but his wounds are nothing time and capable healers cannot deal with. So, to quote your own words, "big fing deal".
EDIT: this coming from a mostly Pro-Alliance person (Blood Elves don't count, and there were negotiations about reintroducing them into the Alliance anyway).
Post by
Rankkor
Plenty of other characters have far more personal reasons for wanting him gone.
Are you kidding me? Lets see herer, Do you know what garrosh did to anduin?
Anduin is the only joy in Varian's entire life. We all know that.
Vol'jin has no serious reason, garrosh sent assasins, big fing deal. baine and lor'themar already got what they wanted.
Varian is the only person justified.
You just have a hate-on for anything alliance.
And you just have an incapacity to discuss anything without attacking the other side.
Vol'jin having no serious reason? are you kidding me, HAVE YOU SEEN THE ECHO ISLES? Anduin was injured by his attack, and he recovered just fine, Vol'jin on the other hand was stabbed in the neck, and his people were clasped in chains, and sent to execution camps. Even now in 5.3, there's trolls lined up blindfolded with firing squads shooting them in the back.
I also have to laugh at "Baine and Lor'themar already got what they wanted" Care to explain that one? Is baine reunited with his dad? Are all the blood elves that garrosh killed to get the divine bell also back to life?
Is theramoore also back to life?
get over your hard-on for varian will ya? he's not the god of azeroth and the plot doesn't spin around his chin.
Post by
Adamsm
Vol'jin has no serious reason, garrosh sent assasins, big fing deal.And kicked his people out of the city, has worked against the trolls, and just been a massive racist bastard to the entire Troll race. Please for the love of the Naaru, go do some Horde quests before you spout.
Also, if Garrosh attacking Anduin is justification, then Baine and Lor'themar have just as much reason to kill Garrosh: Garrosh was responsible for the finishing blow on Cairne, and the sheer number of things that Garrosh has done to the Blood Elves.
Varian actually doesn't have that much justification at this point: The orcs under Garrosh have not directly assaulted the Stormwind forces. During Dalaran, both sides were in the wrong. At the Theramore Summit, Anduin had more control then his father did.
There are a dozen people with more reasons to be there at the end to kill Garrosh then Varian; if you are counting Alliance forces, then Tyrande and Malfurion, Jaina and Vereesa all have more reasons to kill Garrosh then the King of Stormwind does.
Post by
Lordplatypus
Lets not forget here, what really is personal.
Lorethemar doesn't have a personal reason at all, just that garrosh was racist, that's it. Racism isn't as serious as you'd think.
Vol'jin and garrosh's entire relationship is a big F***ing *!@# waving contest that ended with Vol'jin threatening Garrosh's life. He then had the darkspear evicted from orgrimmar. and Vol'jin assassinated. He got out free, big deal.
Baine? Cairne was willing to risk his life, he thought he would win, he didn't.
Varian had anduin nearly killed over and over, with each time closer than the last, what's to make him believe next time garrosh won't just kill him?
Exactly
Furthermore, Garrosh represents something other than "^&*! waving contest" to Varian, he represents the old horde, the one that took his family.
To varian, it's personal.
Post by
Behelich
To varian, it's personal.
Then what about the extermination campaign against Night Elves? What about Theramore? Is that not personal for Tyrande and Jaina?
Post by
Lordplatypus
Jaina, it might be, but she already had her chance, she got talked down, Tyrande isn't personal.
Is there any reason for her, herself to walk in and shoot garrosh? Garrosh sent troops against the elves, that's part of war.
Nearly killing the other guy's kid isn't.
Post by
Rankkor
Its pointless to argue with you. Believe what you want.
Varian is not the god of azeroth, and the plot doesn't spin around his chin. No matter how much you wish it did.
And as of right now Im preparing a "told you so" montage when he's not the one to kill garrosh.
Post by
Lordplatypus
Apparently it spins around the hair of a certain faboulous person with an eyepatch to you. Sorry, the blood elves are an overused plot point, they've gotten an entire damn patch to themselves and over half of a godamn expansion earlier on.
Post by
Behelich
Apparently it spins around the hair of a certain faboulous person with an eyepatch to you. Sorry, the blood elves are an overused plot point, they've gotten an entire damn patch to themselves and over half of a godamn expansion earlier on.
Except the blood elves have been entirely out of focus for two expansions and a half expansions. Puts things in perspective, doesn't it?
It's not entirely about Lor'themar. It's about him, Baine, Vol'jin getting fed up with what Garrosh does to their people.
Post by
Rankkor
Apparently it spins around the hair of a certain faboulous person with an eyepatch to you. Sorry, the blood elves are an overused plot point, they've gotten an entire damn patch to themselves and over half of a godamn expansion earlier on.
Again with the personal attacks.
Have I at any point hinted that I wanted specifically Lor'themar and nobody else to be the one to do it? I just gave you a HUGE list of people that I think deserve it more than Varian, THREE OF WHICH ARE ALLIANCE, one of which I currently HATE more than any other (Jaina). Yes, even though I hate Jaina, even I have to admit she's entirely far more justified and deserving of the finishinig blow to Garrosh.
I've said before that I would like it if Lor'themar becomes the new warchief, but I've also openly admited its a very slim, low probability chance for it to happen.
For all the times you call me biased when you run out of valid arguments to wield, you fail to notice that despite my favoritism of the horde, I do make concessions to the alliance when appropriate. I've yet to see you make a single concession to the horde.
Ever.
Post by
Adamsm
To varian, it's personal.
It's really not.
Post by
Lordplatypus
It's about him, Baine, Vol'jin getting fed up with what Garrosh does to their people.
Is it?
Is it really?
Every single time we've seen garrosh, there's one character built up as a counterpoint over any other.
King Varian Wrynn.
Garrosh ordered theramoore attacked as a military objective, and even if he did something absolutely unforgivable (His attempted genocide of the survivors of lordaeron is still enough that every time i see a picture of him, i start imaging horrible things). It wasn't personal, what pushed jaina over from her optimism was the blood elves betraying her.
Lor'themar has reasons, heck, it's harder to find someone who doesn't have a reason to want Garrosh's head. Cairne knew it was him or garrosh when the fight began. Vol'jin got in a damn pissing contest and lost, Lor'themar wasn't treated well.
Boo hoo.
Did any of them have their kid nearly killed for no reason?
Post by
Behelich
blood elves betraying her.
Let me stop you right there, actions of a few individual power-mongers cannot cast a shadow on the entire fracking race.
And there's hardly no reason not to kill Anduin - he's not a noncombatant, but a powerful priest of the Holy Light and a competent agent of the Alliance who works to pursue its interests.
Post by
Lordplatypus
Look at it from her godamn view will you?
To Jaina, all she saw was the sunreavers helping garrosh get his hands on another doomsday device.
That's what broke her, she saw it as a breach of trust. A betrayal.
And there's hardly no reason not to kill Anduin - he's not a noncombatant, but a powerful priest of the Holy Light and a competent agent of the Alliance who works to pursue its interests.
You mean there's hardly no reason to kill anduin, multiple negatives are confusing wot.
Overall, anduin's been in the interest of peace.
Plus, does varian see this? No. He sees anduin running off to do something and then garrosh beating the crap out of him.
Post by
Adamsm
Did any of them have their kid nearly killed for no reason?
You mean the son who was a acting member of the Alliance war force during the entire Operation Shieldwall action?
Post by
Rankkor
Did any of them have their kid nearly killed for no reason?
Ejem, it wasn't "for no reason"
Like it or not Anduin foiled garrosh's plans, and destroyed the precious weapon he sacrificed so much to obtain. Anduin got himself into that trouble by ditching his own royal escort to go play hero.
And while the kid did good and he stopped what would had been a disaster, he gave himself plenty of reasons to have an angry garrosh trying to kill him.
And once more, while I'm not diminishing varian's reasons for wanting garrosh dead, he himself hasn't really suffered that much by his actions.
Every single time we've seen garrosh, there's one character built up as a counterpoint over any other.
King Varian Wrynn.
Hmmm....... no.
Then they clash again on Tides of War. And again on Domination Point. And again on Dagger in the Dark.
Varian and garrosh are not counterpoint to each other, they just go into a pissing match when they meet. Vol'jin and garrosh on the other hand, diametrically clash with one anothoer over what it truly means to be horde, and how do you define the honor of the horde. Each has their own vision of what being horde means, and they're willing to butt heads all the time over their definition of the horde. If there's anyone in the whole game who's the counterpoint of garrosh in the whole game, that's Vol'jin.
Varian's counterpoint is Jaina. With him being the one pushing for full horde subjugation and her pushing for horde coexistence. Their roles are reversed (Somewhat. Varian is not pushing for horde coexistence, but he's also against full annihilation, which is what jaina is pushing for now.), but they are still counterpoints to one another.
Post by
Lordplatypus
Then they clash again on Tides of War. And again on Domination Point. And again on Dagger in the Dark.
Varian and garrosh are not counterpoint to each other, they just go into a pissing match when they meet. Vol'jin and garrosh on the other hand, diametrically clash with one anothoer over what it truly means to be horde, and how do you define the honor of the horde. Each has their own vision of what being horde means, and they're willing to butt heads all the time over their definition of the horde. If there's anyone in the whole game who's the counterpoint of garrosh in the whole game, that's Vol'jin.
Actually, Vol'jin and Garrosh is a !@#$ waving contest, whereas garrosh and varian see eachother as enemies and counterparts since WotLK with Uludar and the Argent tournament, then the battles at ashenvale and leading the forces of their respective armies.
Garrosh represents uneeded prejudice, agression without cause, drive to conquer
Varian represents prejudice with reason, defense of his people, drive to safeguard
Vol'jin's just a big "I've been here longer mon so i'm more important" and having another advisor to compare with, he didn't like garrosh edging in on his mojo.
Post by
Rankkor
That's YOUR point of view, which is skewed as hell. Try asking anywhere if anyone in this whole wide world sees it the same way.
Good luck with that.
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