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Item you would most like to see as the first legendary of MoP
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Post by
479137
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Problimatic
Saying only LFR is "Accessible content" is about the most ignorant and stupid thing someone can say. I know people that play WoW less than 10 hours a week, and still are progression raiders. 3 raid nights for 3 hours = 9 hours. I know "Casual players" that play significantly more than that. Honestly the only thing limiting people from doing endgame content is themself. There are late night raiders, there are earlier raiders, there are people who raid in the afternoon on weekends. And these are people raiding heroic content, not normal mode stuff. And legendaries are completable on normal mode.
If Blizzard made it so that LFR difficulty things rewarded the same stuff as heroic things whats the point in doing the heroic things? Its one of the reasons a communist society could never work. By human nature, people want to do the least work to get the most reward. Why would I do something thats hard when I can do something that is easy and get the same reward? If everyone is equal, no one can stand out, no one can accomplish anything. We all become drones doing the same thing, and frankly that is boring and not very compelling gameplay. If you don't understand that more work = more rewards then go realize that both in life and in games, the more work you put into it, the better it will be.
Now as to the original topic, I feel that a polearm or a quest with a variety of options would be best.
Post by
479137
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Problimatic
If Blizzard made it so that LFR difficulty things rewarded the same stuff as heroic things whats the point in doing the heroic things?
The bragging rights? The "challenge" itself?
Or are you saying it's only about the loot?
No I'm not saying that at all. There are many "prestigous" parts about raiding harder content. The loot is simply a part of it. Having loot that says heroic on it, means you took down the heroic boss that dropped it. Not everyone looks at someone's achievements, but when they see someone wielding a legendary, or with a full set of heroic tier gear on, they know that person put effort into their raiding. Just like if you see a LFR hero riding around on his bronze drake, you don't exactly see a very epic player per say.
Post by
479137
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Deepthought
ummm. ur forgetting that hunters had the bow in SWP, so that not true.if anything it'll probably b the polearm or a tank legendary of somekind (be it shield or wep)
Thori'dal is a legendary? Seems it's
as strong as an epic of the same tier
. I swear it's purple.
That isn't true at all, not even the comments on the item's page aggree with you;
If you mean that the Timeless Arrows being 53 DPS and this bow being 97.3 DPS exceeds Thori'dal's 148.7 DPS, that is true. However, Thori'dal also has crit if slightly less armor pen, and more importantly, its DPS being innate and not ammo dependent will boost Steady Shot significantly. Thori'dal is definitely better than this weapon.
Yes, it's true that by today's standards, GBoQ is better, but by BC standards (the only standards that really matter, it is a BC item), Thori'dal is way better.
It was also a source of limitless drama and the reason that there are so many ghost town servers.
It was the only reason people cried for new servers, they wanted a mulligan for getting that mount and the Scarab Lord title.Oh,
come on
. This proposition doesn't hold up to even the slightest of logical scrutiny.
Post by
Problimatic
(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##asakawa##DELIM##Trolling and flaming are against the .
Unintelligent crap.
I have officially found the new most unintelligent poster on wowhead. Congratulations.
Post by
Interest
Yes, it's true that by today's standards, GBoQ is better, but by BC standards (the only standards that really matter, it is a BC item), Thori'dal is way better.
Deepthought, I was obviously referring to now, or heck, even in Wrath when there was new ammunition. BC that fact was (somewhat) true, but
look at how few
there were back then, and this was when achievements were IMPLEMENTED, which makes the legendary very much "a rare piece of %^&*" to the many many many Hunters that were around then (especially with drama like that Rogue who got a legendary bow, which also reduced the amount of Hunters who had it and could put it to good use, like in Arena or relevant content).
So don't get me wrong, I know Thori'dal was strong during its relevant tier, but that still doesn't deny the fact Thori'dal overall really wasn't a good legendary. It was by far one of the least common, able to be awarded to classes that couldn't use it but had proficiency and afterwards was pretty much useless outside of farming, but even then it was made more useless so it couldn't be used for farming.
How's THAT for a serious answer to the typical Deepthought "taking everything way too seriously" response?
Post by
Deepthought
Deepthought, I was obviously referring to nowThis is a silly way to go about it. Might as well say Dragonwrath is the only caster legendary ever because Ateish is unobtainable today (I am not suggesting this is something that should be said).
It was by far one of the least commonWhat does it being common or not have to do with how good it was/is?
able to be awarded to classes that couldn't use it but had proficiencyAt WotLK release (the time TSF became useless), 95% of TSF's had been given to Hunters. Also, if "can be given to classes that don't normally use it's type of weapon" is how we define a bad legendary, then Sulfuras and Thunderfury are also bad legendaries.
and afterwards was pretty much useless outside of farming, but even then it was made more useless so it couldn't be used for farming.See, I agree that it was placed horribly in the raiding tier. I do not agree that this somehow disqualifies it from legendary status.
Post by
Interest
This is a silly way to go about it. Might as well say Dragonwrath is the only caster legendary ever because Ateish is unobtainable today (I am not suggesting this is something that should be said).
But Dragonwrath is actually a viable legendary and Atiesh was a solid piece back then (and still is, despite the fact it's no longer available). While Atiesh cannot be obtained any longer, that doesn't make suddenly make the use effect of it = nothing.
What does it being common or not have to do with how good it was/is?
What it does mean is that there weren't enough that tier to make a significant impact on Hunters. For instance, Thori'dal didn't carry Hunters through arena like so many other legendaries did when they were around (although I think Valynyr wasn't that strong either - in fact I would almost call it a close contender but it was moderately useful even after its tier). Shadowmourne, the glaives, Dragonwrath, and Fangs of the Father are all examples of this. Legendaries that came before arena even came around are irrelevant to this situation (before you go about saying "omg Thunderfury wasn't a carry weapon either").
Also on the side of PvE, without additional content like Heroic Raids and the like, and because (as you say later), Thori'dal becomes useless during the next expansion, Thori'dal really wasn't largely useful for PvE either.
At WotLK release (the time TSF became useless), 95% of TSF's had been given to Hunters. Also, if "can be given to classes that don't normally use it's type of weapon" is how we define a bad legendary, then Sulfuras and Thunderfury are also bad legendaries.
Yes, but Thori'dal, to my memory, is the only one that actually had
significant drama
over it. There was so much stigma against Hunters that TF would never be given to them (or rarely if at all - nothing to my recollections ever involved Hunters or any class that couldn't use it viably being given that weapon). I can't speak the same for Sulfuras, but I don't remember any loot drama involving that weapon either. This may have been due to how raid leaders handled their loot back then as opposed to the not-so-back-then. Who knows?
See, I agree that it was placed horribly in the raiding tier. I do not agree that this somehow disqualifies it from legendary status.
Well you see, I think Thori'dal was an awful legendary with awful tier placement with an equip effect that became obsoleted and made it inferior or equal to equipment of its tier while other equip perks remained the same (I still use my TF from time to time for epic multi-target whirlwind effects, for instance), which, in my opinion, makes it not a legendary at all. There's just simply nothing "legendary" about it except maybe the vanity skin and vanity arrows (lol vanity arrows) that puts it on par with other legendaries and their amazing equip effects and/or use effects, and that's just how I evaluate it: based on a combination of how useful it was, (maybe) is, and the special equip and/or use effects that set it apart from other weapons, as well as the potential lore (I don't remember too much for Thori'dal) and possibly even quest lines (there was none for Thori'dal).
Edit: I wasn't even initially being serious about my whole statement of Thori'dal sucking, but thanks for allowing me to make my case anyways.
Post by
877949
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Br0tha
Agi polearm with tanking stats.
So Druid and Monk can use it =).
Post by
Deepthought
But Dragonwrath is actually a viable legendarySo was Thori'dal! It was BiS. We've gone over this.
For instance, Thori'dal didn't carry Hunters through arena like so many other legendaries did when they were around (although I think Valynyr wasn't that strong either - in fact I would almost call it a close contender but it was moderately useful even after its tier). Shadowmourne, the glaives, Dragonwrath, and Fangs of the Father are all examples of this.Legendaries in PvP is another discussion altogether, but even discounting that, I don't think you should judge the quality of a PvE item by it's effect on PvP.
Also on the side of PvE, without additional content like Heroic Raids and the like, and because (as you say later), Thori'dal becomes useless during the next expansion, Thori'dal really wasn't largely useful for PvE either.Agreed. But again, I don't think it's enough to make Thori'dal not legendary.
Yes, but Thori'dal, to my memory, is the only one that actually had significant drama over it. There was so much stigma against Hunters that TF would never be given to them (or rarely if at all - nothing to my recollections ever involved Hunters or any class that couldn't use it viably being given that weapon). I can't speak the same for Sulfuras, but I don't remember any loot drama involving that weapon either. This may have been due to how raid leaders handled their loot back then as opposed to the not-so-back-then. Who knows?I don't see how internal guild drama has anything to do with how good a legendary is?
an equip effect that became obsoleted and made it inferior or equal to equipment of its tier while other equip perks remained the same (I still use my TF from time to time for epic multi-target whirlwind effects, for instance), which, in my opinion, makes it not a legendary at all.It's funny that you mention TF, because they nerfed the proc during BC, making it less powerful. Should this make anyone think less of TF? Not really, because when it was nerfed, it was a whole expansion later.
It doesn't matter what they do to gear that is obsolete anyway.
(I am aware the reason they nerfed TF was that it was still being used in BC content - something that should not happen)
Anyway, my point is this: you can't judge Thori'dal because of something that happened 2 and a half years or so after it was released, that's just silly. It was always going to be obsolete by then. You can however judge it by it's design at the time it came out, and I think it's fair to say that even at the time, it wasn't great. It was useless for PvE progression, being on the last boss and all, and in terms of usefullness (the only terms I think worth discussing here), it probably ranks 2nd from bottom (hey there Val'nyr!). You're right about the lore for it sucking, too. But just being bad for a legendary does not somehow make it not a legendary. It was rare. It was BiS. It still had things no other item had.
tl;dr : Thori'dal, not very good for a legendary, still a legendary.
Post by
Ahrendel
It should end up being a quest chain like Quel'Delar. Choices made through the chain determine what sort of weapon it will end up being (Polearm for Monks, 2handed sword/axe/mace for DK's, 1handed sword/axe/mace for Warriors and Paladins).
Yay Hunters are chopped liver again. We're never getting a legendary.
(!)
Hunters have already had a legendary, even if it's a bit out dated by now. Tanks have had one from the very beginning of the game. Casters have had two now. Two handed strength DPS have had one. And a very few lucky people have Corrupted Ashbringer.
There has never been an explicit tank legendary. (The only reason Thunderfury was, was because of the awesome threat it produced at a time when keeping threat was actually challenging. Which it isn't challenging anymore, except for initial pull.)
I think they could come in with a quest chain like Quel'Delar (albeit more difficult; don't want it too easy like the latest and greatest legendary). This time they could flavor it towards a higher survivability for tanks who acquire it instead of leaning it towards DPS/threat.
Post by
Problimatic
So you want to be the only guy that strutting around Stormwind in the phat gear, everyone else is just there to /oh and /ah at you and tell you how awesome you are?
hint: no one else is looking at your gear anymore. No one cares about your "prestige". No one cares about your mounts. No one cares about what you did. No one cares about your achievements. No one cares about the "effort" you put in to raiding.
Got a legendary? grats, you got carried. Got a phat mount? grats, you got carried or you cheated to get it. Got a big achievement? Paragon did it first.
The last person I noticed with some super special mount? I was one of the 30 "not very epic" people that parked on him with a Bronze drake.
Here I'll put a response in a nicer format, you are speaking in fallacies (I personally feel trolling, it fits all characteristics of trolling, though that is up to moderators to decide.) But I'll expand because if I simply say you are being stupid without expounding upon why, its considered flaming. How precisely does "Everyone who completed the content other than paragon" get carried. Clearly we didn't have anyone in our raid from Paragon or any other world first guild playing our toons for us, nor did we have any of them in our raid "Carrying" our dps our healing teams. To say everyone who did content that is more than what you can do on your LFR level got carried only shows your stupidity. Who carried them? What carried them? Sure they completed it later, though that could be do to scheduling, time restraints, wanting to progress at your own pace, any other number of reasons.
My guild is working on heroic spine, even though madness is already dead on heroic. Guess what, we don't consider ourselves hardcore, we raid less than 6 hours a week recently and are still second in realm progress. We consider ourselves fairly good at this game, and like overcoming challenges. Thats what the whole entire bloody game is about. Overcoming challenges to advance your character. How does Blizzard create challenging encounters if everyone has the top gear? Hard modes are meant to be hard with gear level that you don't get on measly LFR levels. So that even when you get gear, its still hard. Heroic Spine assumes most raid members are about 400 ilvl. Completing it with 384 gear is extremely challenging, but provides no reward. Congratulations you just did a borderline mathematically impossible task, and now you get absolutely nothing to help you with your next one, and the next one is more or less harder.
Plenty of people care about "Prestige." I've got Destroyers end on 4 of my toons now. Most of them from pugs. How? I showed them my druids progress and they were more than willing to let me bring an alt in and do the content. Clearly people care otherwise, people would just bring anyone into their groups and then would be shocked when their group couldn't get by heroic lootchock. You can play with your LFR difficulty, but don't complain when other people are capable of clearing more content and therefore unlock more things. I bet you complain that second place doesn't get a Lombardi trophy when they lose the Super Bowl. They didn't complete as much, therefore they don't get as much reward. And if you don't like how that goes, then you should probably move to a communist country. And unfortunately for you, there are no true communist countries right now. So it looks like you are simply going to have to deal with the fact that work pays off and if you can't work toward something, you don't deserve anything.
Post by
479137
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
331902
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
432158
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Problimatic
You're deliberately trying to misinterpret what I said. But to go with it. If it wasn't for the strats that Paragon and the top guilds like them post, you'd probably never complete the content. Just like most guilds wouldn't. They're still getting carried. Well... the few that survived Tier 11 did.
Also, You're trying to compare apples to oranges. The minute Blizzard is paying me a few million dollars a year to play a game, you'll have a point. Until then, you don't. This isn't work. This isn't a job. This is a video game.
And really? telling someone to leave their home nation over a video game?
have nothera hint: They don't care about your "prestige" they care about you knowing the fights so you could help carry them. next time you're seeing someone spam up trade looking for "20 for DS must have title and achieve" you should armory that person. They probably don't have it, are undergeared, and will take most of the loot for themselves.
Hmmm I'll respond to this paragraph by paragraph, we don't actually use strategies suggested by alot of the top guilds on fights where there is some room for differences. On other fights it is inevitable that you end up with the same strategy. Wow, on a fight where there is a sunder armor debuff tanks taunt off after a few stacks, THATS AMAZING, YOU MUST HAVE LOOKED UP A VIDEO TO FIGURE THAT ONE OUT. I'll use a direct example from this tier that our strategies differ from the top guilds. Fatboss guides (From Quantum EU) suggest for heroic Hagara on 10 man that everyone runs around the outside and that you NEED a hunter for that fight on 10 man. We decided to do a different approach that since many on 10 man have also adapted to in which a majority of the raid collapses on Hagara inside the bubble and the damage is healed through. The melee used movement speed cooldowns and got dispelled whenever frostflake was on them and we succeeded on that encounter before the 5% nerf.
This game has many aspects of life. There is an economy, there are consequences for every decision, and when you work hard and are successful you reap the benefits. Ingame benefits from ingame effort, WHAT A CONCEPT.
I'm telling you based on your "everyone should be able to get everything, and no one should be unique," is the foundation of communism. Which btw isn't a political philosophy it is an economic one.
Orly? I got Destroyers End on my
Priest
this week, and the raid leader was
This guy
and I think he's killed Deathwing before. Just because you can't get into any decent pugs because you don't have any raid experience doesn't mean there aren't good ones. We one shot all of normal DS.
Post by
331902
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