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Wolfheart Novel First Chapter Released
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Post by
Adamsm
Well that's the main thing about Knaak; his descriptions are amazing. As for the Elves in his books, or at least Day and WotA, that was influenced by his previous works, which were in the Dragonlance universe where a lot of Elves are 'perfect' specimens; he has been getting better about that lately, as seen in Night with the male Windrunner and Sinsetra's human form, and then in Stormrage with not all of the Night Elves being perfect looking.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
you were calling knaak alliance biased for writing an alliance novel that seemingly depicts alliance as good and horde as evil
nope, I was calling knaak biased because the way he describes the horde races is unfavorable.
His wording annoys me.
Notice how in War of the Ancients, whenever he is talking about Krasus, he refers to him as "the dragon-mage" or "the mage" or "The leviathan"
When he talks about Rhonin he refers to him as "the red-haired mage" "The fiery haired mage" ect.
Cue him talking about broxigar, and every-single-time he calls him brute, beast, monster, behemot, savage, and spares no details about how filthy and stinking he is, and how yellowed his teeth are, and how disgusting his manners are.
This also happened in Stormrage with Thura Saurfang who deserved MUCH BETTER than the crappy treatment knaak gave her.
Now notice how Golden does not do the same. She actually describes the characters from the point of view of whoever she's talking about without needing to use despective words about it.
Forsaken are not evil.
say what? O_o
dude, I'm an extreme horde fan and yet I have to disagree. The forsaken are the black sheep of the horde as far as I'm concerned, and the sooner those rotting bone-bags are out the happier I can be.
That being said, I wont go to generalization and say "all forsaken are evil", since there's clearly a lot of honorable forsakens out there. But they ARE doing something extremely wrong as of Cataclysm. Hey, Already the blight stuff is bad enough, and it would be too much of a stretch to accept that, but in time, I "could" accept it, but the moment they started dis-respecting the dead to bolster their ranks, they crossed the "Moral Event Horizon" for me.
Undeath is a CURSE, they should not be working towards spreading it to the rest of the world. Knights of the Ebon Blade face the same predicament as the forsakens (They can't reproduce and will eventually die out) but they understand that their condition is a curse and thus do not seek to expand it.
Edit:
I was trying to say he isn't being biased because that's how blizzard is writing the factions it seems. You can't blame knaak, he doesn't control the lore, the writers at blizzard do, he just writes novels based on their scripts. If it really is pro-alliance and anti-horde, then blame the writers at blizzard.
nope, Blizzard writes the basic layout of the plot they want the novel to have, and they give their writers creative freedom to express their wording in whatever way they want to. In other words, Knaak could basically describe every single horde race as a lovecraftian monstrosity and get away with it. As long as the book's PLOT sticks to the basic script they are given, they fullfill the obligations of their contracts.
Having said that, the way Knaak describes the horde races shows clear resent, often acentuating the negative, and seldom highlighting the positive. While his description of alliance characters are full to the brim with embellishment, acentuation of the positive, and overlooking the flaws (basically making his alliance characters mary sues ALL OF THEM)
and THIS is why so many hate him
Post by
Atik
The forsaken spread the curse to bolster their ranks and continue to assist the horde. At the same time, they are working on a cure for undeath so that any they killed and rezzed will be able to get their lives back.
The blight is simply their most effective weapon. It also means less cannon fodder from the undead they recently raised. Their numbers are few and every man is precious. Bombing with blight saves troops, and is probaly less painful for the victims in general. It is a tactic of biological warfare.
I honestly have been a huge fan of the blight sub-plot since the very first quest about it. When I saw the Wrathgate cutscen with Putress shouting "Death to the scourge, and death to the living!" as the LK fell to his knees? I was literally shouting "HELL YES!"
Forsaken are in a fragile mental state. Individuals are easily corrupted, true.
But even Sylvannas herself isn't truely evil. She is broken. Her only goal was to kill Arthas and see him fall. And that was stolen from her, by a human of all people. Tirion is a human, a member of the race that shunned her people and drove them away. But then, as we all know, Tirion goes ahead and convinces the alliance to accept the DKs.
Then this very person went ahead and took her only goal in unlife from her. It broke her, and she is dealing with it.
I don't really like the way Blizz is writting Sylvannas right now, a teenage girl throwing a tantrum more-or-less, but I still enjoy her and the forsaken as a whole as deep and interesting characters.
Post by
oneforthemoney
Is it really any surprise the Alliance shunned her? She killed their commander in Lordaeron after getting what she needed after all.
Post by
Atik
Is it really any surprise the Alliance shunned her? She killed their commander in Lordaeron after getting what she needed after all.
They still shunned the Forsaken and took in the Death Knights, which would have more-than-likely annoyed her.
I mean, Tirion never vouched for the forsaken even though there is one WORKING FOR HIM!
Post by
oneforthemoney
They still shunned the Forsaken and took in the Death Knights, which would have more-than-likely annoyed her.
You do realize one happened before the other right?
I mean, Tirion never vouched for the forsaken even though there is one WORKING FOR HIM!
When the leader of their faction, again, already backstabbed them that's understandable. Tirion vouched for the death knights as one, they were a small group comparatively and two the various races joined their racial factions for the most part and even then were not exactly well received.
Post by
Rankkor
They still shunned the Forsaken and took in the Death Knights, which would have more-than-likely annoyed her.
You do realize one happened before the other right?
I mean, Tirion never vouched for the forsaken even though there is one WORKING FOR HIM!
When the leader of their faction, again, already backstabbed them that's understandable. Tirion vouched for the death knights as one, they were a small group comparatively and two the various races joined their racial factions for the most part and even then were not exactly well received.
actually no.
Tirion never vouched for the forsakens because back then he was still a hermit watching over heartglenn and his boy.
And for the record, the forsaken were shunned by the alliance BEFORE, they commited all the atrocities they did. In fact, treat someone like a monster and lo-and-behold, they end up acting like one. They were humans who died in the third war, got rezzed as puppets for the lich king, got freed, and when they tried to return to their loved ones, were persecuted like monsters.
Naturally nearly every forsaken harbors a deep grudge against their former kin, and this is why once they banded together under sylvannas, they felt no remorse to kill garithos (who lets face it, was a racist prick who deserved to die, since he would had hunted down every forsaken down to the last if allowed to reclaim lordaeron)
Later on, another group of undeads with free will (Death Knights) get freed from the lich king, and they REALLY got lucky, since Tiron (a man who has deep influence in BOTH alliance and horde) vouched for them, and allowed them to be friendly to both factions.
I can see Sylvannas getting jealous of this since Darion and his knights got the benefit of the doubt, while she and her people didnt. (Though that still doesn't justify what they've done, and what they've started to do as of cataclysm)
I actually made a very detailed comparison between Sylvannas and Darion
here
its a good read :P give it a try.
Post by
oneforthemoney
Putting aside that someone being a racist and bigot does not immediately condone being murdered, she still had promised to turn the capitol to him if he aided her which she did not. As for his hunting them down that is conjecture but is not necessarily false all the same. Anyway, in killing Garithos she destroyed what little forces the Alliance had working in Lordaeron as we never heard of any of the Alliance soldiers surviving the fight with Balnazzar. Take from that what you will as perhaps they simply disbanded afterwards. Or not...
It was only natural the Forsaken would be perceived as monsters at first. They were under the control of the Lich King and slaughtered entire nations only recently. Having a walking corpse wander up to you immediately following such and proclaiming they are free you only have their word to go on, and since freed undead was not exactly a well known phenomena it would not be a stretch to think it merely a ploy by the Lich King to kill you. Sylvanas having been one of Arthas's chief lieutenants likely did not exactly help things when the faction was formed.
At any rate, the mentioning in your link of the coward humans who turned and fled from Lordaeron but actually Garithos led the remnants of the Lordaeron army in its efforts to retake their homes.
Post by
Atik
I still just saying, the vast majority of Forsaken are not evil. The evil ones just get the spotlight.
Post by
Rankkor
At any rate, the mentioning in your link of the coward humans who turned and fled from Lordaeron but actually Garithos led the remnants of the Lordaeron army in its efforts to retake their homes.
humm maybe I should edit that part out :P I'll admit I had my own bias quite larger back then, I've toned it down considerably since then.
Still, the current living lordaeronians, live because they fled, whereas the forsaken died because they didn't.
As for his hunting them down that is conjecture
no its not. This guy is such a racist, he puts night elves and trolls to shame. He was perfectly willing (And in fact pulled it off) to kill off his own allies (Blood elves) just because they had pointy ears and funny eyebrows. He also was looking for an excuse to not pay his dwarven allies. If he acted this way with non-humans who were HIS ALLIES, imagine how he would had acted against non-humans who were not..............
Post by
oneforthemoney
Still, the current living lordaeronians, live because they fled, whereas the forsaken died because they didn't.
The irony of the situation is palpable.
no its not. This guy is such a racist, he puts night elves and trolls to shame. He was perfectly willing (And in fact pulled it off) to kill off his own allies (Blood elves) just because they had pointy ears and funny eyebrows.
Well he did get rather pissed at them dealing with the naga and whatnot though with the Blood Elve's situation it was understandable that they turned to them, and I did mention in the second half of that quote it was not a necessarily false conclusion you drew. Still, backstabbing is somewhat counterintuitive to trying to foster good feeling with potential allies but Sylvanas is more a general, the delicacies of politics seem to escape her frequently such as employing Varimathas after she 'killed' his brothers.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
Well he did get rather pissed at them dealing with the naga
that was only the excuse he used to be able to put them all in the violet hold pending execution. His original plan was to trow them to the front lines against the scourge with ZERO support from calvary, heavy weapons, or backups of any kind.
His plan was for them to die to the enemy, once they lived, he just said "screw it, i'll just kill you personally since you were so kind to provide me with an excuse"
Bottom line is: If he was capable of doing that to people who were on his side and so far had shown nothing but support and loyalty, you can imagine what he would do to those who werent part of the alliance and also weren't humans
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
Always happens when someone makes the 'dumb' comment of 'Forsaken are not evil'.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
Always happens when someone makes the 'dumb' comment of 'Forsaken are not evil'.
Just typing "Sylvanas" will provoke a forsaken flame war.
not really.
Typing "Forsaken are not evil" will.
For many many many many reasons. But the mere mention of sylvannas doesn't automatically turns a thread into a forsaken thread. That being said, it did derailed into a faction vs faction thread because Knaak NEVER has been neutral in his writings.
As stated above, he tends to embellish his alliance characters, acentuating the positive, overlooking their flaws, and making them overly perfect (In other words, turns them into mary sues. Hello? tyrande is NOT how he describes her in WOTA and Stormrage)
This is bad enough, but he also tends to accentuate the negative on the horde characters, often shifting the focus on their negative features, and using despective words to describe them.
Other authors have written for characters of both factions and do not incur in this.
For example, Golden in the book Lord of the Clans, when she is speaking from the point of view of Blackmoore, she describes the orcs as ugly beasts, while describing the humans (Like taretha) in a rather fair view, BUt then she shows us the other side of hte coin, when describing orcs from the point of view of other orcs, she uses a positive description, as well.
Post by
Adamsm
Again though, not all the time; it's primarily with the orcs: He doesn't really do that with the Tauren(again, Golden used the base he created for Baine in the Shattering), he's yet to write anything with the Goblins, his Forsakens and Blood Elves weren't overtly negative, except for the ones that were actually evil(the fallen Windrunner and the Baron of the north).
He does have an issue with the orcs, but beyond that, he hasn't really used the Horde faction over all, primarily just the Old Horde and individuals.
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