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Homosexuality General Discussion
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Post by
Adamsm
The Bible has a lot to say about relationships and the way they work. As for it being altered over the last two thousand years... not really. Most Bibles (there are some who are altered to mean what they didn't originally mean) are direct translations from Greek texts written in the first century AD. You can actually still read the Greek words that were used. I do, on occasion, just to make sure my Bible is accurate to the original meaning.Old Testament and New Testament MyTie; I don't think there is an original copy of it still around anymore.
Post by
Monday
People with religious objections to homosexuality: Live and let live. No one is harmed by homosexuality. If there is no victim, then don't worry about it, and let God sort it out in the end. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone and all that. If no one is hurt, then you shouldn't have to intervene. You live your life, and let them live theirs, unless you think it would be fair for someone else to force you to conform to their moral standards.
This is kind of how I feel, although I may be biased.
Post by
Jubilee
I support gays, but I don't want them anywhere near me, near my kids, near anything related with me. That's just how I am.
I do notice this trend from some people. What exactly are you afraid we're going to do? Make you or your kids gay? The reason you stay away from a murderer is because you don't want to either get murdered or become a murderer. I have a hard time understanding what about homosexuality conforms to that.
Post by
pezz
That said, other then one passage in the Bible(which, let's be honest, has been altered so many times in the last few thousand years that it is merely a story book at this point) which says man who lies with man is a sin(paraphrased); for the most part it doesn't really say much else on the subject.The Bible has a lot to say about relationships and the way they work. As for it being altered over the last two thousand years... not really. Most Bibles (there are some who are altered to mean what they didn't originally mean) are direct translations from Greek texts written in the first century AD. You can actually still read the Greek words that were used. I do, on occasion, just to make sure my Bible is accurate to the original meaning.
Not really. The bible was hand-copied by scribes being shouted at in a large room fairly quickly by one guy reading out a copy. And that was just the literate scribes (who, incidentally, were happy to make little tweaks when it suited them). Often times people were just copying characters, with no more understanding of their meaning or proper written form than I have of Japanese characters. Which can lead to problems when some of the earliest written copies of the texts were written in
Uncial
, which had absolutely no word spacing, leading people to guess at word breaks in languages they're barely fluent in.
Aside from that, two people from two different cultures will read passages in very different ways. 'Prophecy' was a literary device to help ancient Hebrews understand why things had happened (you can actually date texts by their prophecies. Stuff that foretells the destruction of the temple can be reliably dated to shortly after the destruction of the temple in 70 AD). We literal minded moderns keep misunderstanding such passages.
As another example, the new testament is full of humor. Paul makes stupid puns, etc. It all goes over our heads because we A) don't speak Greek, and B) don't have anything close to the appreciation for gallows humor that the ancients did.
Post by
Patty
I support gays, but I don't want them anywhere near me, near my kids, near anything related with me. That's just how I am.
I do notice this trend from some people. What exactly are you afraid we're going to do? Make you or your kids gay? The reason you stay away from a murderer is because you don't want to either get murdered or become a murderer. I have a hard time understanding what about homosexuality conforms to that.
Yeah, I'm wondering this too. Sexual orientation isn't contagious. :P
Post by
xaratherus
I support gays, but I don't want them anywhere near me, near my kids, near anything related with me. That's just how I am.
I do notice this trend from some people. What exactly are you afraid we're going to do? Make you or your kids gay? The reason you stay away from a murderer is because you don't want to either get murdered or become a murderer. I have a hard time understanding what about homosexuality conforms to that.
Yeah, I'm wondering this too. Sexual orientation isn't contagious. :P
Nor are homosexuals raging rapists or pedophiles. This will come off insulting, but the statement shows an distinct ignorance of homosexuals in general.
By the way, facesmasher, depending on where you live, it's almost guaranteed that you have a homosexual 'near' you and your family on a daily basis, and you will probably have no idea that said person is gay unless they tell you. Even in very rural areas.
The stereotype of the "flaming queen" or "raging dyke" is just that - a stereotype, and by no means accurate across even a majority of homosexuals; nor do we have glowing pink triangles on our foreheads, or little auras of fairy dust sparkling around us 24/7. We're people, and outside of certain circumstances*, we're often indistinguishable from the person next door.
*Physical displays of affection, Pride parades, etc.
Post by
Monday
xar, stop giving away my camo >.>
Post by
xaratherus
xar, stop giving away my camo >.>
Eww, you wear camo? How gauche!
See, now
that's
an indication of someone being gay. Or a fashion designer - which amounts to the same thing most of the time...
Post by
Monday
See, now that's an indication of someone being gay. Or a fashion designer - which amounts to the same thing most of the time...
That's one of my families' favorite jokes. Use it all the time.
Eww, you wear camo? How gauche!
You know what I mean ;)
Post by
gnomerdon
I treat gays the same as a smoker pulls out a cigarette and smokes in front of me. Yes, they are entitled to be gay, and marry, but in my field of vision, I am ignorantly trying to stay away from them. This is my honest truth. Hate me, love me, these are my "bad" tendencies...
Post by
pezz
I think people are asking
why
. Cigarette smokers, I can understand. You may be worried about second hand smoke, you may not want your clothes to smell like a bar, etc. It's not a good analogy because we can all see straight away what problems some people have with cigarette smokers. There are no analogous risks to standing near a homosexual.
Post by
Squishalot
The stereotype of the "flaming queen" or "raging dyke" is just that - a stereotype, and by no means accurate across even a majority of homosexuals; nor do we have glowing pink triangles on our foreheads, or little auras of fairy dust sparkling around us 24/7. We're people, and outside of certain circumstances*, we're often indistinguishable from the person next door.
Yeah, I never got that. Why, for the sake of a parade, an otherwise normal person would strip themselves of their modesty in such an absurd fashion for little benefit (either for themselves or for their cause) is beyond me. I'd level the same accusation at the heterosexuals who partake in the Mardi Gras events as well.
Post by
MyTie
pezz and Adamsm:
From my standpoint, I will concede that the texts are ancient and from a time when flaws in the transcribing process took place. However, two things are very important... well... to me anyway. Speaking to a non Christian, they may find these two things inconsequential.
1) The way the messages within the text refered to itself and to the other texts. The Bible is constantly referencing itself, both past, and future. The Bible is one story, consistent throughout. None of it strikes me as inconsistent to the rest.
2) God is an omnipotent and perfect being. He, in His wisdom, chose this method to relay His message. I hesitate to question it. (of course, this may not apply to you if you don't believe in God, which makes the whole "is the Bible real" topic a moot point)
Post by
pezz
I'd level the same accusation at the heterosexuals who partake in the Mardi Gras events as well.
Come to New Orleans one year and you'll get a slightly better picture.
pezz and Adamsm:
2) God is an omnipotent and perfect being. He, in His wisdom, chose this method to relay His message. I hesitate to question it. (of course, this may not apply to you if you don't believe in God, which makes the whole "is the Bible real" topic a moot point)
I read a book by A.J. Jacobs called the year of living biblically. He took the bible as literally as he possibly could for a year, to see what it taught him. He had the benefit of a lot of spiritual advisers, from a great many different branches of Judaism and Christianity. One point one of his Christian advisers made, which really stuck with me, was that it's possible to commit idol worship with the bible. If you don't accept that it's a living text, if you don't accept that God never stops revealing himself, if you don't accept that the bible has, at the very least, human intermediaries and at the very most human authors, if you don't accept that God can reveal himself through human reason, you can misconstrue what God's purpose was with the bible.
Post by
Squishalot
Come to New Orleans one year and you'll get a slightly better picture.
Out of curiosity, what's the difference that you're pertaining to?
Post by
Jubilee
I treat gays the same as a smoker pulls out a cigarette and smokes in front of me. Yes, they are entitled to be gay, and marry, but in my field of vision, I am ignorantly trying to stay away from them. This is my honest truth. Hate me, love me, these are my "bad" tendencies...
As pezz says, what is it that makes us worse people to be around? Smokers are a health hazard, are we a health hazard?
Post by
pezz
Come to New Orleans one year and you'll get a slightly better picture.
Out of curiosity, what's the difference that you're pertaining to?
What? Our minds seem to be on different track. I understand each individual word of that sentence but I can't work the whole thing into the context of that thread. I know I'm probably being thick but I need more words.
Post by
Jubilee
Come to New Orleans one year and you'll get a slightly better picture.
Out of curiosity, what's the difference that you're pertaining to?
What? Our minds seem to be on different track. I understand each individual word of that sentence but I can't work the whole thing into the context of that thread. I know I'm probably being thick but I need more words.
I think he's asking what he's missing from the picture that he would need to go there for. Maybe?
Post by
MyTie
you can misconstrue what God's purpose was with the bible.As a preacher, addressing this is a part of my everyday life. For every message God has, there are 200 different people with 200 different meanings for that message. My first and foremost concern is that I convey the message that God intended. This requires me to not only study the part of the Bible I am relaying, but the message as it was originally written (or as close as I can get to original text), the surrounding message, the relationship that message has in conjunction with the rest of the Bible, the intended "direct" recipient of the message, the time frame it was written, the location it was written, and the way that society today generally interpreted the message (correct or incorrect). My second, and most irritating concern, is addressing misinterpretations that are brought to me. This is usually Jehovah's witnesses that knock on my door, or people in the church who have an inaccuracy for some reason. The Jehovah's witnesses always leave angry, no matter how gentle I am and how much coffee I give them, but people in my church are very willing to study with me and come to the answer. I'm not ashamed to admit that on occasion, I'm the one with the inaccuracy.
For the record, the dude that said it is possible to commit idolatry while following the Bible was misinformed.
Post by
pezz
For the record, the dude that said it is possible to commit idolatry while following the Bible was misinformed.
I think what he was referring to is people who say 'no THIS is what the bible says' and proceeds to not treat Jehovah's witnesses with half of the kindness you do.
Edit: If Jubilee is right, you're just missing out on the New Orleans part of Mardi Gras. Even though I tend to be fairly lukewarm about this city, I'm willing to admit that Mardi Gras here defines easy placement into words.
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