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Blizzard vs Tolkien
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Post by
Adamsm
No, the orcs were corrupted elves, not a group of Elves who choose to go against their Light brethren which is what the Dark Courts of the legends speak about.
Post by
Monday
It's true there isn't, I suppose. I think there are evil elves in the MMO, but I don't really count that as canon.
Post by
812974
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
It's true there isn't, I suppose. I think there are evil elves in the MMO, but I don't really count that as canon.
LotR is really bad for black and white.....
Post by
Monday
Aye, it kind of is.
Post by
Adamsm
Only gray is Gollum...and even then, that's stretching it as he spends a lot of time as good and very little as bad.
Post by
Monday
And then he tries to murder somebody and it turns out all his good was bad anyways =P
I noticed it when I was fairly young, that you knew who the villains and heroes were in LotR, and the only real switchup was Saruman, but everyone knew he was evil anyways.
Post by
Gone
At the end of the hobbit there's that bit about every side wanting the dragons treasure, the humans wanting it to rebuild their town, the dwarves having an ancestral claim to it, ect.
Post by
Adamsm
At the end of the hobbit there's that bit about every side wanting the dragons treasure, the humans wanting it to rebuild their town, the dwarves having an ancestral claim to it, ect.
Yes...but only there; LotR is pure black and white.
Post by
Gone
It's implied that Tom Bombadil isn't entirely trustworthy, and I think I remember something about how ents would sometimes kill travelers who strayed where they shouldn't in their forrests
Post by
Adamsm
It's implied that Tom Bombadil isn't entirely trustworthy, and I think I remember something about how ents would sometimes kill travelers who strayed where they shouldn't in their forrests
Um, what? Tom Bombadil is the spirit of Middle Earth; he does nothing but good. Still not really gray since all Ents are creatures of the Light and fight against the Dark.
Post by
Gone
It's implied that Tom Bombadil isn't entirely trustworthy, and I think I remember something about how ents would sometimes kill travelers who strayed where they shouldn't in their forrests
Um, what? Tom Bombadil is the spirit of Middle Earth; he does nothing but good. Still not really gray since all Ents are creatures of the Light and fight against the Dark.
Um, no? You never find out what Tom Bombadil is, Tolkien himself said he wanted it to remain a mystery.
Also what about Boromir and Feramir? And their father? And Grima Wormtougn wasn't an entirely unsympathetic character in the end.
Post by
Adamsm
Again, not gray since they immediately turn and save people. If it comes down to saving someone or doing something evil....nearly all of the characters do the 'good' thing. There is no gray morals at all in the LotR; it's clean cut who is good and who is evil.
Post by
Gone
Yea they did good in the end, but they did bad stuff too, and you didn't mention their father, or Wormtougn. It's not somones actions that make them a grey area, If that was the case almost every character in any story would be black or white. Darth vader from star wars did a good thing in the end, does that make his character black and white? It's somones character not their actions that show a grey area
Oh also I forgot to mention galadriel, she was a little shady too. Also frodo in the end he tried to take the ring for himself.
Post by
Adamsm
Darth vader from star wars did a good thing in the end, does that make his character black and white?Before the Prequels? Yes actually, he was a fairly simple character till the EU started showing us more. And even in the prequels, it was still pretty black and white.
If you want a good gray character, look at something like Deadpool of all people; he does good and evil indiscriminately, mainly because he's insane, but still, at least he keeps you guessing on what he will and will not be doing.
And shady does not mean evil...at all; the book is sanitized, and you always knew who was good, who was bad, and there wasn't a single surprise in store because of it. I'm not a fan of LotR, or any of Tolkien's works in all honesty; he's not my cup of tea. But while he's responsible for the start of the fantasy genre...it's what people who have come after him that have actually made it better; I hate Tolkien Elves, I really do, they are far too perfect. And really, in the Tolkien world, if you are ugly, you will be evil....even Gollum was said to be changing toward the end of the book and not looking as cruel/sneaky/vicious as he was in the Hobbit.
Post by
Gone
Idk though, you'd be hard pressed to find a character like deadpool who isn't just a complete satire. The closest I can think of is one of those charactures who does something evil in order to do what they think is something good.
Post by
Adamsm
Idk though, you'd be hard pressed to find a character like deadpool who isn't just a complete satire. The closest I can think of is one of those charactures who does something evil in order to do what they think is something good.
Which doesn't exist in the LotR sadly, so removes any real deep feelings for the characters because you can't honestly see them as realistic.
Post by
Gone
Idk though, you'd be hard pressed to find a character like deadpool who isn't just a complete satire. The closest I can think of is one of those charactures who does something evil in order to do what they think is something good.
Which doesn't exist in the LotR sadly, so removes any real deep feelings for the characters because you can't honestly see them as realistic.
Well you gotta remember too it was written for a different generation, the gray area is there imo, it's just more subtle than a lot of more recent authors
Post by
Adamsm
The Hobbit was written in the exact same era, and it has the grayest character as the main character: good ole Bilbo Baggins. So Tolkien could write a good gray moral character...but for some reason, he didn't do that for LotR. And there are a lot of books from that era without the black and white mentality. But again, LotR only set the stage, if WoW was vs anything, it would be D&D since Gary Gygax took what Tolkien had started and made it better.
Post by
Gone
Eh, that may be your opinion about Tolkien, but I think your in the minority there...
I personally hold him to be one of the greatest fantasy writers of all time. And I mentioned a lot of gray characters in lotr, as I said gray is a persons character not their actions, actions are very rarly neutral
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