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War in Lordaeron
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Post by
4dehorde
If you are going to claim I actually made something up, you are going to have to provide some proof. It is fact. Over a hundred people called Taurajo home, and since only a little over a dozen survived, yes, most were killed the massacre conducted without the general's knowledge. He didn't even know about his troops' conduct, so his words mean nothing.
Source for only a dozen surviving?
I said about a dozen. Anyone who has done the Horde quests in the Southern Barrens knows this to be true. The quests at the Ruins of Taurajo and the Overgrowth prove it. Those who "survived" only to be killed by quillboar don't count as survivors. They still died as a result of the massacre.
Post by
Monday
If you are going to claim I actually made something up, you are going to have to provide some proof. It is fact. Over a hundred people called Taurajo home, and since only a little over a dozen survived, yes, most were killed the massacre conducted without the general's knowledge. He didn't even know about his troops' conduct, so his words mean nothing.
Source for only a dozen surviving?
I said about a dozen. Anyone who has done the Horde quests in the Southern Barrens knows this to be true. The quests at the Ruins of Taurajo and the Overgrowth prove it. Those who "survived" only to be killed by quillboar don't count as survivors. They still died as a result of the massacre.
No seriously, source it.
As in, give me quests, quotes, etc. Don't try and go "anyone who has done this blah blah blah." Nothing screams bluff more than not sourcing stuff you say when called upon.
Post by
Adamsm
Those who "survived" only to be killed by quillboar don't count as survivors. They still died as a result of the massacre.
Yes they did; but it wasn't by Alliance hands now was it? Or are you blaming everything in the Southern Barrens on the Alliance; from the Overgrowth to the Quillboar and all the rest?
Post by
4dehorde
If you are going to claim I actually made something up, you are going to have to provide some proof. It is fact. Over a hundred people called Taurajo home, and since only a little over a dozen survived, yes, most were killed the massacre conducted without the general's knowledge. He didn't even know about his troops' conduct, so his words mean nothing.
Source for only a dozen surviving?
I said about a dozen. Anyone who has done the Horde quests in the Southern Barrens knows this to be true. The quests at the Ruins of Taurajo and the Overgrowth prove it. Those who "survived" only to be killed by quillboar don't count as survivors. They still died as a result of the massacre.
No seriously, source it.
As in, give me quests, quotes, etc. Don't try and go "anyone who has done this blah blah blah." Nothing screams bluff more than not sourcing stuff you say when called upon.
I've already sourced it, and I am not doing so again. Nothing screams bluff more than making a claim, and when someone provides evidence against it, you overlook that evidence. One quest requires you to save tauren survivors caught in the vegitation. Those are about five or six total. No more than three Taurajo survivors are at Camp Una'fe, the rest are from Honor's Stand. About three or four more are at Vendetta Point. So that leads to the conclusion that only about a dozen people survived Taurajo. You want more proof, look it up yourself. Don't try and overlook it this time.
People who escape an attack only to die immediately after are not survivors of any sort.
Post by
Ritmas
Those who "survived" only to be killed by quillboar don't count as survivors. They still died as a result of the massacre.
Yes they did; but it wasn't by Alliance hands now was it? Or are you blaming everything in the Southern Barrens on the Alliance; from the Overgrowth to the Quillboar and all the rest?
Your logic is flawed.
So it's like some African tribe attacks other tribe, take the civilians as prisoners and throw them away in the lake full of crocodiles is right? Because it wasn't by the attackers hands now was it?
Post by
Monday
I was hoping you'd say something like that =D
If you are going to claim I actually made something up, you are going to have to provide some proof. It is fact. Over a hundred people called Taurajo home, and since only a little over a dozen survived, yes, most were killed the massacre conducted without the general's knowledge. He didn't even know about his troops' conduct, so his words mean nothing.
Source for only a dozen surviving?
I said about a dozen. Anyone who has done the Horde quests in the Southern Barrens knows this to be true. The quests at the Ruins of Taurajo and the Overgrowth prove it. Those who "survived" only to be killed by quillboar don't count as survivors. They still died as a result of the massacre.
No seriously, source it.
As in, give me quests, quotes, etc. Don't try and go "anyone who has done this blah blah blah." Nothing screams bluff more than not sourcing stuff you say when called upon.
I've already sourced it, and I am not doing so again. Nothing screams bluff more than making a claim, and when someone provides evidence against it, you overlook that evidence. One quest requires you to save tauren survivors caught in the vegitation. Those are about five or six total. No more than three Taurajo survivors are at Camp Una'fe, the rest are from Honor's Stand. About three or four more are at Vendetta Point. So that leads to the conclusion that only about a dozen people survived Taurajo. You want more proof, look it up yourself.
People who escape an attack only to die immediately after are not survivors of any sort.
That quest only documents the known accounts. Objectively, one has to understand it was far more than just several Alliance vigilantes running around. Just like the the quest "Honoring the Dead". You are only required to perform last rites for 4 dead villagers, when we all know that many more than that numer died. Just like how the population of Stormwind is 250,000. They are not going to put 250,000 npcs in the game.
Ohai. Same principle applies.
Post by
4dehorde
Those who "survived" only to be killed by quillboar don't count as survivors. They still died as a result of the massacre.
Yes they did; but it wasn't by Alliance hands now was it? Or are you blaming everything in the Southern Barrens on the Alliance; from the Overgrowth to the Quillboar and all the rest?
Your logic is flawed.
So it's like some African tribe attacks other tribe, take the civilians as prisoners and throw them away in the lake full of crocodiles is right? Because it wasn't by the attackers hands now was it?
Agreed. Thats like saying the Romans were not responsible for the deaths of prisoners in the arenas because the lions and tigers did the killing.
Post by
Adamsm
Those who "survived" only to be killed by quillboar don't count as survivors. They still died as a result of the massacre.
Yes they did; but it wasn't by Alliance hands now was it? Or are you blaming everything in the Southern Barrens on the Alliance; from the Overgrowth to the Quillboar and all the rest?
Your logic is flawed.
So it's like some African tribe attacks other tribe, take the civilians as prisoners and throw them away in the lake full of crocodiles is right? Because it wasn't by the attackers hands now was it?
It goes back to the fact that the Commander did order holes in the attacking lines for the civilians to escape through; he thought, because the Alliance have never had a presence in the Barrens, that the Tauren and the Quillboar were actual allies and hadn't realized that they were enemies until after the results of the battle came to him.
As linked here, for the full story about it from both sides.
Post by
4dehorde
I was hoping you'd say something like that =D
If you are going to claim I actually made something up, you are going to have to provide some proof. It is fact. Over a hundred people called Taurajo home, and since only a little over a dozen survived, yes, most were killed the massacre conducted without the general's knowledge. He didn't even know about his troops' conduct, so his words mean nothing.
Source for only a dozen surviving?
I said about a dozen. Anyone who has done the Horde quests in the Southern Barrens knows this to be true. The quests at the Ruins of Taurajo and the Overgrowth prove it. Those who "survived" only to be killed by quillboar don't count as survivors. They still died as a result of the massacre.
No seriously, source it.
As in, give me quests, quotes, etc. Don't try and go "anyone who has done this blah blah blah." Nothing screams bluff more than not sourcing stuff you say when called upon.
I've already sourced it, and I am not doing so again. Nothing screams bluff more than making a claim, and when someone provides evidence against it, you overlook that evidence. One quest requires you to save tauren survivors caught in the vegitation. Those are about five or six total. No more than three Taurajo survivors are at Camp Una'fe, the rest are from Honor's Stand. About three or four more are at Vendetta Point. So that leads to the conclusion that only about a dozen people survived Taurajo. You want more proof, look it up yourself.
People who escape an attack only to die immediately after are not survivors of any sort.
That quest only documents the known accounts. Objectively, one has to understand it was far more than just several Alliance vigilantes running around. Just like the the quest "Honoring the Dead". You are only required to perform last rites for 4 dead villagers, when we all know that many more than that numer died. Just like how the population of Stormwind is 250,000. They are not going to put 250,000 npcs in the game.
Ohai. Same principle applies.
Okay, then MANY more people survived Southshore and Hillsbrad Fields then you all first surmised. This works both ways. There is no shirking from the truth. A massacre was done at Taurajo. The Alliance could have spared innocents like the general wanted, but no.
One cannot condemn the Forsaken attacks in Hillsbrad without doing the same for the Alliance at Taurajo. And while many survived in Hillsbrad, it has been proving not that many escpaed Taurajo. Hundreds and hundreds of Hillsbrad survivors escaped, as seen on Fenris Isle. That is far more than Taurajo survivors. Not once have I seen anyone from the Alliance accept Taurajo as a massacre. I have admitted the cruelty of the Forsaken attacks in Hillsbrad and expalined the reasons behind it, not justified, but explained. But there is no justifying an outright massacre like Taurajo. The Alliance could have conquered the town and left the innocent alone, but they didn't. What could a reason be for such wanton slaughter?(##RESPBREAK##)2700##DELIM##Neutronimity##DELIM##Stop. The. Quote. Pyramid. Here.
Post by
Adamsm
Yes....and those who survived on Fenris are killed by the Forsaken since they had no where to run. And of course, there is the field of screams in Hillsbrad, where the new
buff
came from, since it never actually said you had to dig up those poor humans who were buried from the neck down.
Post by
Monday
The Alliance could have spared innocents like the general wanted, but no.
Threre's this little thing called: "Oh crap, we have to burn this incredibly strategic supply center, but if we stand back and let the citizens escape they may take supplies and weapons away and warn the army, which would totally ruin our objective here."
One cannot condemn the Forsaken attacks in Hillsbrad without doing the same for the Alliance at Taurajo.
Hillsbrad was a civilian center. Taurajo was right on the path to Mulgore and was a supply/training center. How many times do people have to say that before you accept it?
That is far more than Taurajo survivors
Hillsbrad was also larger than Taurajo. Percentages is how you work stuff like this, not raw numbers.
Not once have I seen anyone from the Alliance accept Taurajo as a massacre.
Then you're %^&*ing blind.
But there is no justifying an outright massacre like Taurajo.
Because attacking a strategic military supply and training center is so horrible compared to virus-bombing a civilian population. Yup.
Ohai bias. Didn't see you there.
The Alliance could have conquered the town and left the innocent alone, but they didn't. What could a reason be for such wanton slaughter?
See above.
Post by
Gone
If he brings up Taurajo again I am going to scream.
Dude Taurajo and Southshore are THE SAME SITUATION, and if you parot back at me again that taurajo wasnt military I will also scream. It has been said multiple times CT was a major point on the path to mulgore, and trained Horde infintry.
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
uruzu
So youre comparing a single attack in Barrens to the human genocide campaign in Northern EK.
Invading and using chemical weapons on Gilneas. I seriously doubt Alliance or anyone else tried to invade Silverpine enmass. The only notable ones in the Silverpine region are the Dalaran survivors. I would hardly call that a threat to the Forsaken. The Gilneas liberation front pushed their way up AFTER the invasion of Gilneas.
Threaten to turn a human into a Forsaken is also really classy.
Virus bombing the entire Hillbrad region. Yea many civilians survive and escaped, but that change the fact the whole place is like a plagueland now.
Stormgarde IS NOT a member of the Alliance. I repeat it one more time
Stormgarde IS NOT a member of the Alliance. Thoras and Terenas disgreed on the treatment of the orc POW. Thoras wanted them executed while Terenas didnt. Thoras ragequitted.
So, justification for assisting the invasion of Stormguarde and killing its prince before Cata and after Cata, raising him to be a Forsaken, killing Stromgarde population in Arathi? How is Stormguarde a threat to the Forsaken considering how far they are from Trisfal Glades? Stormguarde still exists, no excuse to ''move'' and kill off any survivors.
Again, everything is right according to Sylvanas and her followers. Does that change the fact its evil?
If I were Danath Trollbane, I would gtfo of Outlands, reclaim the entire Stormguarde make it the bastion of defense for everyone down south.
''Queen %^&*!. THis is where you stop. You shall not pass !''
Post by
Gone
Virus bombing the entire Hillbrad region. Yea many civilians survive and escaped, but that change the fact the whole place is like a plagueland now.
Actualy theres a quest to go kill them so count that out
Post by
Monday
Ugh, this did not need rezzing...
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Monday
3 days is not a rez.
Not a necro, but definitely CPR.
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
4dehorde
Okay, I'm back. I needed to take a break from all this. And now...
I have a whole new perspective on the war in Lordaeron. I'm sure everyone here is aware of Sylvanas' backstory. She lost her homeland, her people, and her life to Scourge invaders. Now the Alliance is attacking Lordaeron. She doesn't want a repeat of Quel'Thalas. She is doing everything she can to get the Alliance out and keep her people safe. Her tactics are a bit extreme, but understandable. In my opinion, her cause is just. Just like if the Horde attacked Elywnn Forest or Redridge, Varian would be just in defending his people.
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