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Thor: Thoughts?
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Post by
238331
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Patty
That would make him a
bad
King, in my opinion, maybe a good hero, but definitely a bad King.
Until
character development
kicks in, anyway.
I'll still be cheering for Loki :) Well, Loki is quite likable. Plus there's the fact that he is
easy to pity
.
Post by
Adamsm
The only 'normal' member of the Avengers is Hawkeye, as his only skill is his accuracy with anything thrown.
Black Widow, trained since she was very young to be a spy/assassin and depending on the writer, was enhanced by beta versions of Super Soldier serum or has her own powered armour(Ultimate Widow).
Iron Man, the armour and tech.
Captain America, only successful Super Soldier which makes him a 'perfect' human. Ant-man/Giant-man, the ability to grow and shrink. Wasp, again, depending on writer is either just a test subject like Pym, or an actual mutant(Ultimate Wasp).
Vision, android with multiple powers and abilities.
Black Panther, enhanced by the Spirit of the Panther, and his armour is laced with vibranium.
Thor, a God.
Hulk, human that is nearly impossible to kill since any adrenaline kick starts the change....but the Hulk has been beaten down by several different Asgardians: Thor, Heimdall, the Warriors Three, Sif and so on.
And the interchanging members, such as Luke Cage, Sentry, Spider-man etc etc etc.
Post by
Sagramor
@Adamsm: That's what diplomatic missions are for, not Thor, the guy who got screwed because of this, and his ready-for-war friends.
@Queggy: I know that Odin can see all that is going on the nine realms, but that doesn't really matter, because what he did to Thor was clearly as punishment (look at his face when he does it, that is one pissed of All-Father), and, most importantly, he's not conscious through most of the movie. And that's note even counting the fact that he doesn't want his sons to prove themselves, the first born gets to be king. Period.
As to the genocide thing, that's kind of irrelevant, since, in the movie, there is never shown to be a grey area between good and evil, and the Jotuns are clearly evil, so, in the film's own point of view, killing all of them would be a good thing. Also, you do notice the contradiction in saying that Loki couldn't be king because he was a Jotun (which no one else knew, by the way), then saying he was bad because he wanted to eliminate all ice giants?
And I realize that Loki is not a nice guy. I know, he fights agains the gods in Ragnarök, his son is a giant wolf, and his wife is the guardian of the gates of Hel. But, that's not the case in the movie, he's just sly, at best. And, it doesn't change the fact, that he's the only diplomatic person that's not unconscious most of the time.
Also, saying that Thor is stupid because 'that's the point', doesn't justify it, it just makes the point stupid.
Post by
Adamsm
his wife is the guardian of the gates of Hel.Daughter not wife lol.
Post by
Sagramor
his wife is the guardian of the gates of Hel.Daughter not wife lol.
Thanks for pointing out that trivial fact that in no way contributes to the argument, nor disproves anything I've said.
I do need to brush up on my Norse mythology though, it's been a while.
@#$%ing Canadians, man.
Post by
Adamsm
his wife is the guardian of the gates of Hel.Daughter not wife lol.
Thanks for pointing out that trivial fact that in no way contributes to the argument, nor disproves anything I've said.
I do need to brush up on my Norse mythology though, it's been a while.
@#$%ing Canadians, man.
I never said it didn't, was merely correcting a mistake. Honestly, seeing as Loki sacrifices himself at the end of Siege to stop the Void, there was always 'good' in the character; but he's always been one to ^&*! with Thor, the Asgard, and everything else. Yes, the entire point of the character in the movie was to show he was good...but think about the final fight with Thor: Loki
didn't want the Throne
, he just wanted to be accepted as being worthy of his Father's love and to be the equal of Thor.
And the representation of Thor is the standard one; whether it's regular, Ultimate or even Manga verse version of him; he always starts off as arrogant and steadily gains control over it. If you were expecting something different, Marvel Thor is not for you.
Post by
Sagramor
I never said it didn't, was merely correcting a mistake. Honestly, seeing as Loki sacrifices himself at the end of Siege to stop the Void, there was always 'good' in the character; but he's always been one to ^&*! with Thor, the Asgard, and everything else. Yes, the entire point of the character in the movie was to show he was good...but think about the final fight with Thor: Loki
didn't want the Throne
, he just wanted to be accepted as being worthy of his Father's love and to be the equal of Thor.
That's exactly what makes the people in this movie retarded. Loki only wants a little acknowledgment, and he's the only person that should be allowed to have it. But for no other reason than Thor's abs, birthright and so forth, they frown upon him. Quite frankly, Loki is an idiot too, I mean, he shouldn't give a ^&*! if the people around him care about him, specially because the people around him are retarded.
Also,
And the representation of Thor is the standard one; whether it's regular, Ultimate or even Manga verse version of him; he always starts off as arrogant and steadily gains control over it. If you were expecting something different, Marvel Thor is not for you.
That's like saying 'Oh, that's just your opinion.' as an argument. It doesn't try to disprove the idiocy of Thor, it admits it, but says I shouldn't voice that it is stupid.
And, honestly, not even that part the movie does right. There's no real show of how Thor, or anyone around him actually, evolves as a character (except Loki getting more desperate and Portman getting wetter). The changes are too sudden. One minute he's an aggressive idiot, the other he realizes the importance of talking. The transition is barely, if at all, shown.
Post by
Adamsm
That's like saying 'Oh, that's just your opinion.' as an argument. It doesn't try to disprove the idiocy of Thor, it admits it, but says I shouldn't voice that it is stupid.So you expected them to go against 50 years(it's actually that many this year heh) of character derailment/development/creation of Thor just for one movie? If he didn't act like the standard brain dead barbarian from the start, people would be up in arms about it to the extreme.
One minute he's an aggressive idiot, the other he realizes the importance of talking. The transition is barely, if at all, shown.Comic book movie though...and a Marvel one at that.
Edit: Sagramor I don't care that you hated the movie; I know quite a few people who do, same with any of the new Marvel ones.
Post by
Sagramor
Comic book movie though...and a Marvel one at that.
Come on dude, that's like saying 'It's @#$%ty because it's ^&*!ty, therefore it is okay for it to be !@#$ty.'
And I didn't hate the movie, I saw it for the scenarios, and Natalie Portman. It didn't disappoint me.
Post by
MyTie
I'm going to address Saggy's opinion here.
Saggy seems to be contrasting Loki and Thor as potential kings, and obviously siding with Loki. I take issue with that. Saggy doesn't give an accurate portrayal of either. Here is what I got from it that Saggy didn't:
Thor: This guy is your cliche jock. He is physically gifted (beyond just being a god). He has a dumb brute mentality, mingled with happy go lucky party mentality. He doesn't have a lot of foresight. This is made obvious by his starting a war, and his complete trust of Loki for a while. He isn't bad natured, but he is a dumb hothead that needed to be taught a lesson. Odin takes it on himself to teach this lesson by banishing him. Afterward, Thor is no longer a hothead, and his self pride has been tempered with the humbling experience of being separated from his love. He ends up saving the planet of ice giants he had started a war with, under the reasonable and good natured idea that it would be a bad thing to wipe out a race of beings. He does this by breaking the bifrost bridge, which is a difficult decision to make. What you are left with is a practical, good natured, jock who isn't afraid to make hard decisions. He has some qualities that will cause him to be a good leader. He won't be a perfect leader, but will be a good one.
Loki: This guy is your cliche villain. He reminded me of the villain from Megamind, only without the good nature. He is willing to kill, deceive, and banish his own brother forever, just to heap benefit onto himself. The guy was smart. The guy was cunning. But he used these not to a good end, but to a destructive, hateful, selfish end. While I agree he possesses a lot of the tools to lead that Thor doesn't possess, he uses these tools in a way that isn't good. I also don't think it is fair that he wasn't given credit for trying to stop Thor from taking the throne. However, the two things that nullify this thought is that it can't be used as an excuse to do bad things, and he was stopping Thor for all the wrong reasons.
So in the end you have a good natured meat-head, or a bad natured genius.
Post by
Sagramor
MyTie, what disagree with you is, first, that destroying Bifrost was stupid, because now all other realms are their mercy.
And, secondly, Loki isn't trying to get himself propelled up, his most important goal is to make sure Thor doesn't get on the throne, because he knows he would be a crappy king, and he's right. He's fine with Odin being in it.
And, I don't think either of them should be king. The first thing I said is that Odin is the only sensible character in the entire movie.
Post by
Patty
l agree much more with your view of Thor than your interpretation of Loki, MyTie.
The problem with Loki is that he was... unhinged by the discovery that he himself was a Frost Giant. It essentially catalysed (or perhaps, exaggerated would be more accurate) his feelings in insecurity about himself, an inferiority complex if you will. He hoped that by destroying his own homeworld he would finally be seen as worthy of Odin's love and compassion as a son, not as an evil, blue, dwarf baby. He is a classic anti-villain, or tragic villain, rather than a straight out villain.
Post by
Adamsm
Comic book movie though...and a Marvel one at that.
Come on dude, that's like saying 'It's @#$%ty because it's ^&*!ty, therefore it is okay for it to be !@#$ty.'
And I didn't hate the movie, I saw it for the scenarios, and Natalie Portman. It didn't disappoint me.
Then again, 50 years of canon against one movie; the canon will always win, which means we will see a stupid Thor at first, who gets smarter, a Loki who plays speed chess with everyone, but get his ass handed to him at the end, an all powerful Odin who could clear everything up with one simple move but outside forces intervene, The Warriors Three there for a good time and the fun of battle...except for Volstag who eats everything, and a Sif....who completely and utterly got derailed: Sif is Thor's wife/lover/standard love interest but due to the Portman character, we didn't get to see that, at all....../sigh Oh, and no mention that Sif is the leader of the Marvel Asgardian Valkyries.
As for Loki; in the Marvel main stream continuity, he's half Frost giant, not a full one.
tl/dr/don't care: They can only do so much in a two hour movie heh, what they did was good, what they did had bad moments, but at least it's better then Fantastic Four Rise of the Silver Surfer and the first 2 and half hours of Spider-man 3.
Myself, own personal opinion, I'd honestly say that Thor is the best of the new crop of Marvel movies; and I'm actually hoping that both Captain America and the Avengers movie will be a lot better heh.
Edit: that destroying Bifrost was stupid, because now all other realms are their mercy.Well, after they recover from having a massive portion of their planet destroyed. And they are rebuilding it, and possibly one being created on Earth as well. And for all we know, the rest of the Gods will find the same routes Loki was using to sneak around; after all, when he appeared to Thor, we didn't see the same thing we've seen for the rest of the Bridge moments.
Post by
Sagramor
The other Gods won't find the way Loki found, he's the only one who's that knowledgeable on the arcane. Maybe Odin, but he most likely soon will not be King, and will go to rest. And that's not counting the fact that Loki could only use those ways to transport a few people, not the armies that would be needed to fight off invasions from other worlds.
As to the bifrost on Earth, that will get soon derailed by the Jotun invasion.
Post by
Adamsm
The other Gods won't find the way Loki found, he's the only one who's that knowledgeable on the arcane./shrug There are others who, while not the 'Master' as Loki is, that are on the way there.
Maybe Odin, but he most likely soon will not be King, and will go to rest.Not since he's done an Odinsleep; after each Sleep, he comes back stronger, better, and more epic....well, usually.
And that's not counting the fact that Loki could only use those ways to transport a few people, not the armies that would be needed to fight off invasions from other worlds.Eh, if you can port Odin, Thor, Heimdell or the Warriors Three to Earth, you are fine; Volstag went up against the Hulk once and the two ended the fight by sitting on a cliff drinking kegs of beer heh.
As to the bifrost on Earth, that will get soon derailed by the Jotun invasion.I see Loki manipulating someone to using the Cosmic Cube to open the way in all honesty.
Post by
Gone
That would make him a
bad
King, in my opinion, maybe a good hero, but definitely a bad King.
Until
character development
kicks in, anyway.
I'll still be cheering for Loki :) Well, Loki is quite likable. Plus there's the fact that he is
easy to pity
.
Its strange, in the comics Loki is actualy a pretty evil guy and isnt very likable at all, but I found myself sympathising with him quite a bit in the movie.
Hulk, human that is nearly impossible to kill since any adrenaline kick starts the change....but the Hulk has been beaten down by several different Asgardians: Thor, Heimdall, the Warriors Three, Sif and so on.
Hes also put ol goldielocks through the ringer a few times.
Im kinda dissapointed Thor wasnt around during World War Hulk, when the not so jolly green giant was at his strongest, woulda been a much more epic final fight (i hate sentry)
Post by
Frostshamadin
That kind of suprises me that the hulk could defeat thor, i mean thor is a GOD the hulks is just some big green strong dude
Post by
Adamsm
That kind of suprises me that the hulk could defeat thor, i mean thor is a GOD the hulks is just some big green strong dude
.....What?
Post by
Gone
That kind of suprises me that the hulk could defeat thor, i mean thor is a GOD the hulks is just some big green strong dude
They have both beaten each other, although the fight is usualy interupted or something. Once the Hulk actualy ripped his hammer out of his hand and beat him up with it.
The thing is in the Marvel universe the term "god" is subjective, Thor may be a god but somone like Galactus could crush him like a flea. Sentry, Black Bolt, Hulk, Dr. Strange, all non gods yet still pose a threat to Thor.
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