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Heirlooms in battleground
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Post by
picman
Hi.
I have been annoyed by this for to long now.
And i honestly don't understand how the blizzard team thought when they came up with the idea of heirlooms.
I understand and comply with that heirlooms is an great way for capped players to make alts and speed up the gameplay they have already been playing trough.
But i think that it is unfair and dsn't have anything with the above stated that heirlooms works the exact same way in battlegrounds.
My vision of an battleground is an place where experienced players compete against eachother to asses which one of the teams is better on teamwork, playing their class and communication.
By using allowing the proccs of heirlooms in battleground you give one of the teams an advantage, due to that that team got more players with heirloom, in most cases.
Even though you can win against an greater geared opponent, the chances are smaller than if both of the players would have the same gear.
Since you who obsess heirlooms already have experience in world of warcraft.
Why would you have to use them in battleground?
Woulden't you already know, differ from new players, how to play an battle ground?
You may say, you use them for the XP bonus.
Fine, keep that.
But make the proccs useless.
Because if you already know how to play.
You would still be able to "gank" new players.
But still give the other team an chance and it would be an funnier game for both teams.
The whole reason i think this removal would benefit the game much more than the existance of heirloom themself.
Is because new players would find it fun to play PVP.
And if you don't like that you cannot gank every other player.
Go do an dungeon, or quest with your heirlooms.
To make it clearer.
I think that heirlooms is an way to speed up boring zones and dungeons.
But not for speeding up battleground wins and gaining incredible amounts of honor.
Battlegrounds are the same at capped level, as they are at any other level.
So no matter looms or not, you will still do the same gameplay over and over and over.
Without it going any faster than it already does.
Post by
126061
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
GravenTerenas
I (sort of) see what you're saying, but in what way is it "unfair" if both sides have absolutely equal access to these items? They already made a big concession to casual PvPers by putting the twink BGs in a parallel bracket. Are you are basically asking that they eliminate any advantage that a player can gain by working to put better gear on their character, and make it so everyone is the same regardless of the time they've put in?
Post by
Murrdurr
OP is just mad he gets owned and trys to blame it on the heirlooms, but when in reality its probably just his skills that are getting him killed so much. Like Fori pointed out you can always find blues at your level that are just as good as heirlooms so really theres no reason to complain about it.
Post by
Treskol
I'd rather play against Heirloom players than Twinks
Anyday.
Kids these days don't know how lucky they are....grumble
Post by
picman
At almost any lvl there's pvp blues available wich are equal to heirlooms at that lvl, at any lvl there's blue dungeon drops wich are equal to heirlooms of that lvl. You can be equal to heirloom users, you just have to put a bit more effort into it, if you step into a BG with ^&*!ty gear, you won't only be owned by ppl with heirlooms but also more geared people who put more effort into getting gear. (Similar to how it requires effort to get heirlooms, only on a different char). So either way, putting more effort into gearing your char means your char will be better, what a surprise.
And on top of that at 60 and 70 you can get epic pvp gear wich far outweighs heirlooms and at 80 all heirlooms bar cloak & head stop getting better.
Protector's Sword
Binds when picked up
Unique
One-Hand Sword
40 - 76 Damage Speed 2.70
(21.4 damage per second)
+7 Strength
+3 Stamina
Durability 90 / 90
Requires Level 28
is nearly identical to
Venerable Dal'Rend's Sacred Charge
Main Hand Sword
41 - 76 Damage Speed 2.80
(21.0 damage per second)
+4 Agility
+6 Stamina
Item Level 1
Equip: Increases your critical strike rating by 4 (0.74% @ L28).
the only clear advantage heirlooms have, and the only reason there's a point in getting them obviously is that they scale with your lvl so you don't have to get a new item for that slot every few lvls to stay in line with the rest. But technically it's perfectly possible to be equally, in some cases even better, geared than someone wearing heirlooms, it just requires effort on the char itself instead of on a high lvl char, wich can be a good thing since you're running dungeons and pvp anyways for exp.
Ofcourse, you can fly back and forth between Northern Barrens and Arathi Highlands all the time.
But that requires you to actually win the battles before you can aquire enough honor to buy the items.
At that time you get enough.
You will still be in the same level range as when you started BG
And they will soon be outdated when you level up again.
I (sort of) see what you're saying, but in what way is it "unfair" if both sides have absolutely equal access to these items? They already made a big concession to casual PvPers by putting the twink BGs in a parallel bracket. Are you are basically asking that they eliminate any advantage that a player can gain by working to put better gear on their character, and make it so everyone is the same regardless of the time they've put in?
You can still have the advantage of PVP gear as fori pointed out.
And you will still have the advantage of experience.
So as i said, it woulden't be any problem removing the proccs when you are in battleground.¨
OP is just mad he gets owned and trys to blame it on the heirlooms, but when in reality its probably just his skills that are getting him killed so much. Like Fori pointed out you can always find blues at your level that are just as good as heirlooms so really theres no reason to complain about it.
That is an silly accuse which has nothing to do with the topic and which i will not bother answering.
Post by
Bawkxy
There is another factor that nobody has noticed, or perhaps mentioned.
(For me), the whole point of obtaining the heirlooms was to do what the OP is now currently QQing about.
As good as heirlooms are, fori has made quite a nice comparison to show that the stats are quite similar to obtainable blues. However, most people with BoAs also put enchants on them, which is where it gets out of hand.
As example;
2x
Balanced Heartseeker
with
Agility
at level 14 or 19, gives a massive advantage for rogues.
I have made an enhance shaman to mess around with in the lv 10-14 bgs, just for lulz using the below setup;
Devout Aurastone Hammer
with
Enchant Weapon - Mighty Intellect
Venerable Mass of McGowan
with
Enchant Weapon - Mighty Intellect
Mystical Pauldrons of Elements
Discerning Eye of the Beast
Mystical Vest of Elements
You would be amazed at how high my earth shock can actually crit for.
The point that the OP is trying to make here is that Heirlooms are currently breaking the lower level bgs (which I slightly digress with as I think that the cause of that are the enchants), with the rest of the community saying 'qq moar, @#$% only gets serious at 85' which is just blatant trolling.
Post by
tuckmuck203
Eh, I think its a lot more about balancing low level brackets. In the 10-14 bracket, any significantly boa'd character with decent skill/enchants can turn the tide of a battleground. Case and point, the other day I saw a twinked out priest go 57 and 0 at level 10 in arathi basin the other day. Was funny as hell, and I don't even care if she was killing me too, considering how funny that was just o see her killing everything in sight. They won. Obviously. The same day I saw a pally that was 2 shotting literally everyone, including my boa geared hunter with 750+health. They won, because nobody could kill him (had crazy resil).
Post by
Bawkxy
Eh, I think its a lot more about balancing low level brackets. In the 10-14 bracket, any significantly boa'd character with decent skill/enchants can turn the tide of a battleground. Case and point, the other day I saw a twinked out priest go 57 and 0 at level 10 in arathi basin the other day. Was funny as hell, and I don't even care if she was killing me too, considering how funny that was just o see her killing everything in sight. They won. Obviously. The same day I saw a pally that was 2 shotting literally everyone, including my boa geared hunter with 750+health. They won, because nobody could kill him (had crazy resil).
Heh, level 10-14 priests are exceptionally fun, the ability to global people with penance and healing/PW:Shielding through their whole team attempting to pummel you is actually quite addicting(I guess I was lucky there wasn't any shammies that knew how to wind shear when I played at that bracket)
Post by
Murrdurr
OP is just mad he gets owned and trys to blame it on the heirlooms, but when in reality its probably just his skills that are getting him killed so much. Like Fori pointed out you can always find blues at your level that are just as good as heirlooms so really theres no reason to complain about it.
That is an silly accuse which has nothing to do with the topic and which i will not bother answering.
Meh not my problem your OP screams "I suck and people with heirlooms are better than me so I am going to cry about it"
Post by
MrSCH
OP is just mad he gets owned and trys to blame it on the heirlooms, but when in reality its probably just his skills that are getting him killed so much. Like Fori pointed out you can always find blues at your level that are just as good as heirlooms so really theres no reason to complain about it.
That is an silly accuse which has nothing to do with the topic and which i will not bother answering.
Meh not my problem your OP screams "I suck and people with heirlooms are better than me so I am going to cry about it"
Mmm I'm going to have to agree with him I think. Anyone who has played low level PvP sans--heirlooms will know what he's on about.
At no level before 60 epic PvP gear I would say could you get something equivalent to full melee/ Hunter heirlooms.
I say this because I find the caster heirlooms lacking in survivability compared to the insane amount of HP you get with the others.
But this is just my opinion I guess.
Post by
Pwntiff
Blizzard has also stated multiple times they don't actively balance low-level PvP. If you are primarily PvP'ing at low-level either have your main invest in heirlooms for you, or spend your honor points to get PvP gear for your level.
Post by
BustingLenin
If you are truly concerned about PvP at a low-level, and the effect better gear has on it, you are either twinking or misunderstanding how this game is meant to be played competitively.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
If you are truly concerned about PvP at a low-level, and the effect better gear has on it, you are either twinking or misunderstanding how this game is meant to be played competitively.
Blizzard has also stated multiple times they don't actively balance low-level PvP. If you are primarily PvP'ing at low-level either have your main invest in heirlooms for you, or spend your honor points to get PvP gear for your level.
I'm sick of people giving that as an excuse. If it's in the game, and is an active part of people's play time, they
should
put the effort in.
I do find it funny that Blizzard tried to eliminate twinking only to replace it with a system 10x easier.
Post by
Treskol
They nerfed Ambush slightly as well, which shows they aren't completely oblivious to it.
But stillI'd rather play against Heirloom players than Twinks
Anyday.
Kids these days don't know how lucky they are....grumble
Post by
Adamsm
I'd rather play against Heirloom players than Twinks
Anyday.
Kids these days don't know how lucky they are....grumble
Agree with that.
Post by
Interest
OP is just mad he gets owned and trys to blame it on the heirlooms, but when in reality its probably just his skills that are getting him killed so much. Like Fori pointed out you can always find blues at your level that are just as good as heirlooms so really theres no reason to complain about it.
That is an silly accuse which has nothing to do with the topic and which i will not bother answering.
Meh not my problem your OP screams "I suck and people with heirlooms are better than me so I am going to cry about it"
Mmm I'm going to have to agree with him I think. Anyone who has played low level PvP sans--heirlooms will know what he's on about.
At no level before 60 epic PvP gear I would say could you get something equivalent to full melee/ Hunter heirlooms.
I say this because I find the caster heirlooms lacking in survivability compared to the insane amount of HP you get with the others.
But this is just my opinion I guess.
Agreed. At the lower levels it's pretty damn ridiculous.
It wasn't so bad before when there were 2 armor pieces and weapons, but now that there's 4 and even more are on the horizon...
Quite painful to do heirloom-less bging especially. Sucks for new players, to be honest.
I'd rather play against Heirloom players than Twinks
Anyday.
Kids these days don't know how lucky they are....grumble
It's about one and the same.
B'sides, twinks would be about equal in power I'd think. I would know, I twinked my Warrior numerous times while leveling (locked exp, farmed gear, unlocked exp, and did bgs).
If you are truly concerned about PvP at a low-level, and the effect better gear has on it, you are either twinking or misunderstanding how this game is meant to be played competitively.
Blizzard has also stated multiple times they don't actively balance low-level PvP. If you are primarily PvP'ing at low-level either have your main invest in heirlooms for you, or spend your honor points to get PvP gear for your level.
I'm sick of people giving that as an excuse. If it's in the game, and is an active part of people's play time, they
should
put the effort in.
I do find it funny that Blizzard tried to eliminate twinking only to replace it with a system 10x easier.
(I wish they'd actually bring back twinking. It's so harshly nerfed at this point and heirlooms effectively bring you up to the strength of one that twinks would have to work much harder than before. That and battleground brackets have a lower level difference than before).
Post by
Treskol
It's about one and the same.
B'sides, twinks would be about equal in power I'd think. I would know, I twinked my Warrior numerous times while leveling (locked exp, farmed gear, unlocked exp, and did bgs).
I twinked a rogue.
Heirloom players stop at a certain point, but twinks didn't.
That Arena Master trinket. What sort of level 19 stands a chance of taking out 1000 health AND the 1400 hp a twink would have, with his Shadowfang and 60% dodge chance?
You stand a chance against a heirloom alt, but you never stood a chance against a twink.
Post by
Interest
It's about one and the same.
B'sides, twinks would be about equal in power I'd think. I would know, I twinked my Warrior numerous times while leveling (locked exp, farmed gear, unlocked exp, and did bgs).
I twinked a rogue.
Heirloom players stop at a certain point, but twinks didn't.
That Arena Master trinket. What sort of level 19 stands a chance of taking out 1000 health AND the 1400 hp a twink would have, with his Shadowfang and 60% dodge chance?
You stand a chance against a heirloom alt, but you never stood a chance against a twink.
Not by much, to be honest.
Besides, an heirloom alt can probably do something to a twink.
Oh also, keep in mind: Gear progression is much better at lower levels with Cataclysm. You'll probably have a few rare pieces by the time you reach 19, so it's possible. Before Cataclysm, you may have been able to get a couple, naturally, at best.
Post by
Murrdurr
You can easily be on the same playing field as a person with heirlooms even without any, if you take some time to farm some items with a higher level you can beat anyone, assuming your skills allow it. If youre still getting killed by people with heirlooms youre simply not as good as them then.
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