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The issue with feral druids
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Post by
335633
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Post by
Mousysqueak
He plays the class. You play the class that his naturally counters. Does that make your opinion biased? Moreso, does that mean you aren't allowed to have an opinion about the topic? Thats not how it works. You told him his opinion isn't valid because the class he plays hasn't achieved some sort of threshhold arena rating, which is apparently required before you are considered competent, yet you also state that the value of that very class in said arena is incredibly unqualified.
I think this is partially where I might be able to come into this as a Holy Paladin PvP player. I've hit 1800 in this season and S8 (though, the competitors in this season seem to be slightly less skilled than in S8 imo), so that makes my opinions "credible."
In arena, and I'm speaking primarily from a 2s perspective, my job is to keep my health up and my partner's health up, no matter what I have to do. Different classes/specs are more/less difficult to heal through, and I get a huge chance to sit there and watch mechanics of classes play out. Ferals, in their current state, are completely insane. The bleeds rip through any and all mitigation other than Resilience. No other class has a mechanic like this save warriors, and Colossus Smash is going to get the bat nerfed out of it soon. I can feel it.
Anyway, I digress. The point is that Feral Druid bleeds are friggin' insane. I don't want to say "overpowered," cause God knows some DK is going to come raging in here saying that he couldn't kill me in a 2 hour duel or something and that this makes me overpowered. (Paladins are slightly unbalanced, yeah - overpowered in the hands of someone smart, yes - general player, no.) However, tossing huge bleeds on mah buddy, proceeding to put me in a flippy CC that I can't remove with anything other than trinket (wtb bubble out of Cyclone), and then stunning my partner with stuff that's not even on the freaking DR list... you get the idea.
I will agree with Wrath though, as I have previously in this thread. Take the current nerfs/damage shifts of Feral. Let them keep the powershifting. It'll be nice enough to get rid of the BLEED-BEAR-WIN mechanics. Put a 300% mana cost on all the forms - it won't affect endgame raiding (Have YOU ever heard of a bear needing to shift out of snares every/every other GCD?) - and make it so the Ferals have to decide whether to break "X" root at "Y" time or eat the damage. It puts another skill curve to the class, which would also help. This would be similar to the skill curve of higher-rated druids NOT using Berserk to break fear - seriously, I've never even seen a kitty do that....
The past ~1.5 pages have been people going at each other's throats about the validity of the points being made, and it's starting to remind me of an argument I had with GoShad a while ago. Discuss the points being stated. If you want to go at each other's throat about validiity, I'll just drag some 2200 players in here and make them copy/paste the "invalid" opinions to somehow make them "valid." (Please don't make me do this.) Hell, pose your arguments to Arena Junkies and see if the Gladiators like them or not. Where do you think I get most of my PvP ideas from?
Anyway, I hope you enjoyed this mess of comas living in their homes as the army-o'-dashes decides to invade. It's late. I r tired. And I want to get back to the duel with this DK. I'll edit this in a few weeks and let you know if it's ended.
I lol'ed @ "untanned backside regions of my body."
Post by
45538
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Post by
361722
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Post by
cloudp
Wrathdivine, I just checked your armory on your feral druid. You have never even hit 1550 rating in arena and you have over 300 arena wins, which means you play arena alot, but are unable to hit what is considered an "average" skill bracket.
The main difference this season compared to previous arena seasons is before, the druids dps was garbage, so it wasn't a big deal for any druids to go running around. In fact, their damage was so weak, almost every druid played resto b/c it was the best arena healer for several seasons. We rarely saw feral druids in arena.
These two statements made by you, Heckle, conflict with one another. First, because you undermine a players capabilities, AFTER stating that you yourself observed that the class / spec that player plays was garbage, in relation to their generally low damage output. "We rarely saw feral druids in arena" shows that Wrathdivine, even while probably not handling this debate all that well, may have been subject to this 'underdog' mentality, and perhaps wasn't accepted by a general population of arena-goers because of the specs short comings.
This could lead to him being forced to take subpar arena partners who didn't know or didn't care about the poor damage output of his class / spec. Now, I don't know any of this for certain, but what I am mostly trying to say is that you cannot instantaneously exemplify others' opinions solely because they do not appeal to a short-sighted doctrine of standards. An opinion is more than that.
Well, Wrath himself is claiming an experience in the game that puts him in a supposed upper hand for this debate. Turning your own words, Sheeo, all he's really shown is a bunch of HKs that could be earned by throwing heals at a random player, ganking world PvP, or otherwise uncompetitive PvP. So, no, he really hasn't proven the superiority of argumentation he's claiming. Heckle pointed that out after Wrath's claim to be aknowledged AND experienced, but there are no sources backing that up.
What Wrath has been doing, so far, is just counter to his heart's contempt what he feels he can counter argue. His old claim of Feral VS Shadow being a one sided battle, which I discarded, has gone unanswered. He started talking about Earthbind but not directly admitting he was wrong. That's not healthy debate, he's trying to force his oppinion onto us. He then tried to use a safety belt comparing Berserk to other 31 talent pointers. I refuted that as well, and it's gone unanswered so far.
While I cannot claim experience on Cataclysm (Hence, my really passive voice thus far on the debate), I'm still not seeing any tangible proof on Wrath's arguments to actually convince me about Feral's state. He's not being able to focus on druids, he keeps going for other classes. Should a class be OP/UP, the class spells should be self explanatory in finding design flaws; although comparisons can be used to gauge performance too, so far, I'm not nearly convinced enough.
Post by
361722
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Post by
354213
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Post by
354213
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Post by
Monjaru
And i can only speak as a frost mage trying to counter your mobility.
But i would probably suggest trinket and kitty charge, shapeshift my snares and sprint to close any gaps ive been stupid enough to let you open into :)
Kitties won't be able to shapeshift out of roots anymore, and kitty charge doesn't break them either. Sooo... GG?
I'm just gonna have to agree that, no matter who is more experienced in this debate, facts are facts. Kitties have been the most mobile class since Vanilla, and the better solution is to just nerf the damage (which they're doing) and leave their mobility alone (which they're -not- doing... for some unknown reason).
With the loss to their damage, they can't stand up to other melee classes, and without the mobility, they're useless against any class with the ability to root. Where does that leave them? Near as I can tell, dead-weight.
Post by
92763
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Post by
Mousysqueak
My point is, unless you are completely terrible, a frost mage is an excellent counter
right now
to
even a competent feral
a freaking lot of things.
Fixed it for you.
Post by
361722
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Post by
335633
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
92763
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
361722
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
361722
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
354213
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Monjaru
I actually agree with you. If they'd dial back your damage a bit, and let you continue to shapeshift roots, I'd be ok with that.
Well, then there is no more need for me to say anything. Glad we can agree. :)
Post by
Modibybob
This thread is now renamed "The issue with frost mages".
Post by
354213
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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