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Bear Tanking Advice
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Post by
498278
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Post by
726021
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Post by
80642
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Post by
Thror
Well, according to Elitist Jerks its:
Stamina > Agility > Dodge > Mastery > Crit > Haste
There is one thing that i find a little controversial, and that is Hit/Expertise caps. Since our threat is fine, and our Taunts can not miss anymore, the reason to stack hit over survivability oriented stats has decreased a lot, in my eyes. Actually the only reason to stack Hit that they give on Elitist Jerks is
for interrupts
. But i think that is a rather
extravagant
reason. The Expertise soft cap, on the other hand, is advocated by increasing the chance to proc Savage Defense, since crits and hits work on a double roll basis. There are also these odd crooks that say we need it for
threat
, but thats crap... the worst thing is that imo, they pick HORRIBLE items with perverse stats, just to pursue those two caps, AND they reforge Mastery into Dodge,
instead of Hit
! Seriously!
Anyway, i think it is pretty easy to calculate how much Expertise increases the chance to proc Savage Defense, so that might actually be a good stat for survivability. But... UHH. Will that slightly increased chance of a survivability proc be better than outright using an item with Crit and Mastery, solid damage reduction stats, instead of that
horrible
Hit item? I don't know! And it doesnt matter anyway, because once we get into raiding tiers, we start picking whatever poor choices we will have... i wonder what is on the four pieces of T11 i have decided to pick... i know legs are fine... i now don't even know what i wanted to talk about. Uh... WHATEVER. Check it out>
http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t110351-feral_bear_cataclysm_release/
Post by
pelf
Hmm ... for tanking, doesn't achieving hit and expertise caps (soft or otherwise) increase threat generation? Are they just going off the fact that threat is significantly higher than DPS threat at this point and not caring about it?
Post by
Synectics
Hmm ... for tanking, doesn't achieving hit and expertise caps (soft or otherwise) increase threat generation?
Highly true. I'm not a pro Bear tank, but as a Protadin, gearing is more along the lines of Hit > Expertise > Stam > the rest. If you have a high chance to be parried, it's going to be like using a level 80 weapon on a level 85 boss -- you won't be hitting hard at all. Same, obviously, with missing in the first place.
And interrupts play a very important part in most 5-man's at the moment. Large amounts of damage can be completely negated just by keeping your interrupt on cooldown at all times.
I've not had too much trouble staying within 1%-0% chance to miss and no chance to be dodged or parried by anything but a raid boss. If you're already sitting near or on the cap, replacing a +Hit 316 item with a 333 without +Hit should be a no-brainer. But for a serious raider, the Hit and Expertise caps will be the highest priority -- as long as it doesn't sacrifice large amounts of solid stats like Stamina.
Post by
710036
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Post by
Falkor
i heard today that skull bash was made to not miss either, like taunt.
anything to confirm/deny this? that would make hit even less useful if it were true, other than a threat stat. and if it can miss i'm assuming it goes off melee hit?
i'm not near hit capped but i havent missed a skull bash yet as tank or dps. my only real exp as a tank was on several attempts of the 1st boss of sfk; i know low samples and all...but i would think at least one would have missed with my 2.15% hit, rng and all who knows. and as dps it hasn't been missed yet with the same hit rating, but i use it a lot less since i dont have brutal impact in my spec yet.
if hit/exp are of no consequence (and they really arent for threat, at least in heroics) then it comes down to reforging to either dodge/mastery, which last i checked they are still talking about on EJ.
Post by
LookOut
There is one thing that i find a little controversial, and that is Hit/Expertise caps. Since our threat is fine, and our Taunts can not miss anymore, the reason to stack hit over survivability oriented stats has decreased a lot, in my eyes.
I agree completely. I will not personally reforge, gem, chant or otherwise gear for hit or expertise unless I start having a problem holding threat over DPS. At the moment no DPS comes close to my threat and I'm running with abysmally low levels of each.
^agree 100% with both Thror and Rokkmojo. Although I have to add that I haven't been able to get into a raid as a bear yet (the only run I did was as offspec kitty with bear gear and spec xD yeah, that night failed pretty hard ...), so no idea how many misses and parries ForteXorcist will spam me with once I raid more often.
and if it can miss i'm assuming it goes off melee hit?
Well, seeing as skull bash is also a mini-charge, I somehow doubt it goes off a melee hit ... but who knows.
Post by
109094
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Post by
Thror
@Pelf: Yes, Hit and Expertise do increase our threat generation. And the peeps from EJ are for stacking those stats. It is me who is kinda against that, because i do not need extra threat generation. I am running with 5 expertise and 2% hit, , and i generate boat loads of threat, even on lvl 88 targets.
@Synectics: Indeed, interrupts play a large role in 5 men content, but you can tank 5 man content while only picking the highest ilvl leather item with agility and having some skill, and you will be fine. These stat weighs we do now are evaluated for raiding, difficult content. Besides, 5 mens have a lower level of enemies, so the chance to miss is lower.
Indeed as Rokkmojo says, bear threat is fairly good even without hit stats. I am talking 40-60% advantage without anyone using their threat management abilities.
@falkor: Skull bash can miss. The charge portion of the ability can not, but the interrupt can.
Still... stacking a high amount of hit merely for Interrupts in raids? I would much rather just eat a food that gives +90 hit and hope for good luck. With stacking Hit, you are getting rid of a SMALL chance that something in a few particular encounters will fail. With stacking
other stats
, like Mastery, Dodge and Crit, you are
guaranteed
to take
less damage
in all fights where melee damage is present. That is no choice.
Post by
pelf
I doubt any tank is going to be primary interrupt for something unless that's the gimmick in the fight; so, I wouldn't get hit just for that.
I guess I agree with the don't-need-more-threat-at-the-moment argument. Also, without reforging haste and mastery to dodge, my dodge was ... very low. Even now, it's lower than I'd like it to be. 30% self buffed? Hmm...
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