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TANKS! Slow the Hell Down!
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Post by
buzz3070
I'm going to agree with Aestu here who is this "we" you speak of? im almost positive 9 times out of 10 everyone in the group wants to get through and instance as fast as possible.
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628682
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93865
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628682
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524425
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Post by
apvalceanu
I agree to half of what Aestu said and disagree to rest :P Heroics, especially if you are way overgeared, are more or less a walk in the park and if JP is all you are after then do it fast. I also agree that probably the vast majority of players in heroics are there just for JP. And i agree to the case that Aestu presented - if he as tank is so overgeared he can go ahead and pull - BUT if so he should not blame others for not going at his pace (excluding the players who move REALLY slow). Also imo Aestu you should also not complain about "how you hate boosting someone" who just reached 80 and is not as well geared as you. (i'm not saying you do - was talking about a possible situation). So as long as you see where your rush / chain pulling leads or might lead and you accept the consequences i have nothing against it (even if personally i do not like it).
On the other hand I cannot agree to you calling someone greedy who just wants his part of the loot - be it skins, plants or just drops from mobs. It is as much his choice as it is yours to rush ahead and pull grp after grp. If you would need money lets suppose, and were doing a quest which implies killing mobs, would you not loot them as well? It's more or less same thing here - since it is my part of the loot i see no problem in me actually looting (which btw does not take that long). Its true this might lead to me not doing almost any dmg in instance if everyone else is rushing, or to tank doing almost all dmg if he is the only one rushing, but again this is a consequence of each of the player's choice and they should not be blamed for having a different choice then the rest (we are ofc talking about reasonable things here).
I advocate the idea of cooperation in dungeons and it came a bit of a surprise what Aestu said here after all other posts i read by him... BUT i also agree heroics are soooo trivial these days that most of the times a "rush tactic" is what most people want. Also if 4 ppl want rush and you alone want a "slower, more fun" run, you cannot expect everyone else to submit to your desire, but at the same time rest of group has nothing to blame you for if you have a different opinion and take just a bit more time for looting or such. Also there is NO reason to scream in someone's face that his dps is not enough in a heroic (again not referring to stupidly low dps like 500-1k) or his overall damage is low - he might just prefer a more relaxed play style, and if anyone supports the idea that heroics are very easy, then this is the perfect place to play a bit more relaxed (as opposed to a raid - especially one with hard bosses)
So i guess that if both parts had just a bit of tolerance for the other side, runs can go smooth without to much complaining on either side.
@ littlelot - as you see i am disagreeing with Aestu on some parts as well, but while he is not on the same page with you, he is also not throwing things in your face, different opinion or not. "we don;t need you"? Have you actually ever played with him in a group and disliked it, or are you just expecting him to quit wow or do something else other then heroics because you disagree with it?
Post by
buzz3070
I ask you kindly to delete that edit in your post as I do not wish to contribute any further to this thread.
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93865
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Post by
apvalceanu
A poll will prove nothing. Regardless of what the result is you still cannot neglect the other part, even if its only 5 people. They have a right to have their own opinion just as you and i have the same right.
@ Aestu - answering your last question. First - i would rather talk about "my experience playing the game", not my experience as an uber dps / tank. It is not the fact that i dps less mobs that translates into a slower run for me. What i am saying now is only available for me (so not a general idea). I tend not to use macroes a lot. I do have some but only the ones i find really useful. Other then that i like to cast each spell according to what i see fit for that moment of the fight (so not following what used to be rotations - i do not see a point in striving to get 10% more dps in a heroic by always being at the seat of your pants) and each spell take 1 fraction of a second more to see what i should use next. So what i am saying is i do not like the feeling of rush because in this case i would always have to think 3 moves ahead, have 3 fingers ready all the time to spam-hit a button and all these things create a very small pool of stress. Personally i would rather have a very small pool of relaxation :P since we are doing heroics not a focused end-raid. Thats all.
Also - i still understand other opinions against rushing here, but this was my part. As long as you have no problem with me having a bit less dps by feeling a bit more relaxed, i have no problem with you pulling on the run. I honestly wish more people would see things like this, but apparently most find the need to rush you as well.
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444854
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Post by
Asylu
How much pain does it really cause anyone if you slow down just a tad, turn a 6-8 minute heroic into maybe a 10 minute heroic? No one, unless you play on a gaming chair with a seat of nails...and if you do that it's a completely different set of problems you've got there. O_o
Why should a group of 4 other players have to struggle to keep up with one person, tank or no? It's purely selfish to impose that on others, just as it's been said that holding a group back because one person is lagging behind is selfish. So, do what I've done: Make a PSA macro that states how you are going be doing pulls. That way if the DPS do not like it they can drop group and wait for another tank. I have taken some flak in randoms for it, but for the most part it gets the point across that I will move at a reasonable pace to me and be accommodating to others as possible, but if they don't like it...Then go sit in the queue til you get the tank you want.
Captcha:question Pendulum lol
Post by
138583
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Post by
Asylu
How much pain does it really cause anyone if you slow down just a tad, turn a 6-8 minute heroic into maybe a 10 minute heroic? No one, unless you play on a gaming chair with a seat of nails...and if you do that it's a completely different set of problems you've got there. O_o
Hmm, 6 minute heroic versus 6 minute heroic and 4 minute staring at slowpokes looting, smoking, hugging corpse till rolls are over.
I take 6 minute heroic any day.
Then grab some guildies. So, do what I've done: Make a PSA macro that states how you are going be doing pulls. That way if the DPS do not like it they can drop group and wait for another tank. I have taken some flak in randoms for it, but for the most part it gets the point across that I will move at a reasonable pace to me and be accommodating to others as possible, but if they don't like it...Then go sit in the queue til you get the tank you want.
If you let them know what kind of tank you are then they can't complain. But if someone in the group asks you to slow down a bit, would you? Not wait on them for 10+ minutes, just slow your roll so that they can loot/get mana/breathe.
Okay, let's go hypothetical here. If you were back in high school or college and you were given a project to do with four other people, three of which are much like you (taking in the fact that most people are B students) and the last is a card carrying member of MENSA. He already has a flow chart and is starting the Power Point presentation for the project and every time you and the others try to even grasp what he has decided the project will be on he complains that you are going to slow, that you should give up and most of all, can't compare to how brilliant he is. How would that feel?
Not saying that WoW is as important as education, but the team work needed to complete dungeons/raids is similar to such class projects. Each person has a role to play and if one person decides what they want is the
only
thing that matters, the team falls apart. One person can carry a group if that person is cautious, but one reckless person can wipe it.
Post by
239153
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Post by
apvalceanu
@ Asylu - i agree to what you're saying. There should be an intermediate zone where the run is not to fast and not to slow - a constant speed with which all are comfortable. I am not saying waste time, just as i am not saying run till your feet bleed.
@ zw4512 - it is not the other way around. Actually everyone in this game wants something - be it gold (maybe they need epic flight) or may be JP. It doesnt matter because as long as you expect everyone else to do the run the way you want to (as opposed to a balanced run that suits all more or less) then you are greedy. A rushing tank that neglects everyone else is just as greedy to achieve his goal as is a player who always slacks to loot or for any other reason. It is not a greed of money / loot, but rather a greed (maybe better word is selfish or self-centered)towards a desire, no matter what others wish.
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