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10.2.5
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BM hunter vs. Enh Shammy vs. any spec rogue
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Post by
Qlix
ok... my roommate and i just recently got into this debate about who the highest single target DPS class in the game would be and why. Actually it was more about him arguing that an enhancement shamman can keep up the other classes in a raid. I said he was nuts. His reasoning behind his belief is that shamans have no agro dump abilities and therefore have to throttle down their dps in a raid for fear of wiping.
I disagree on this one. I feel that with equal gear and skill lvl (agro dumping abilities aside) the BM hunter witl 9 times outa 10 come out on top, Followed by the rogue and then the shammy.
We came up with an idea to test this out. If we could find a mob that doesnt move that all 3 could go all out, balls to the wall on without dieing then we'd be able to sorta judge this. No feigns or MDs for the hunter, no vanish for the rogue and no Tranguil Air for the shammy.
I really dont intend to spark a debate or a flame war i just would like to know if theres any way to test this in game? Sure it wouldnt be in a raid, this much we know... we just need some way to measure DPS on a mob over aperiod of time without having to worry about threat. We thought of trying the goblin guy in Netherstorm (the one with all the lil walking bombs) but seeing as the Rogue and Shammy are both melee they wouldnt survive for very long... and the hunters pet would be dead in one blast.
any thoughts??
Post by
Kryz
Well, when I want to test my rogue's dps or combat cycle, I got o the blasted lands and beat on one of those twilight guys that don't die unless you break the crystal.
To test your hunter just get a tanking class in there and give him about 30 seconds to build a ton of threat, then go to town. Time it or go until you're OOM, whatever, then compare damage done or overall DPS. My rogue, without healing or evasion can go for about 4-5 minutes on one of them before I need to vanish.
As for your debate, shaman can do a ton of damage, but their threat is the reason they don't. Regardless of the reasoning though, they don't do the damage in groups. I would have to give single target sustainable DPS to a combat rogue. Just look at the shade of aran fight for evidence.
Post by
Morrik
Like with most encounters in the game, it all depends how good the healing is, how good the tank is and how the mob fights.
In most cases I will say the Rogue wins on DPS hands down. Sword spec, 2x mongoose and slice n' dice is VERY hard to compete with.
The best an enhancement shaman can get with procs is flurry and 2x mongoose.
Even if the enhancement shaman is keeping up with dps on the Rogue, more often than not the shaman will be in the same group as the Rogue therefore granting the rogue either
Grace of Air
or
Windfury Totem
which would cause the Rogue to gain a significant advantage.
Post by
reignofarrows
Rogue are built for single target DPS, and they do exceedingly well at it. A BM spec hunter may be able to out DPS a 41 sub spec rogue, but it is much harder to beat an equally geared combat rogue. As combat daggers, I'm almost always top on the damage meters in Karazhan, even after Illhoof.
Post by
rayzorium
Teron Gorefiend in Black Temple. He is the best raid DPS benchmark since Patchwerk.
If that fight is unavailable, or if you want to do it without buffs for some reason, then give Anachronos a try. He's in Tanaris and hangs out in front of the Caverns of Time entrance. He is a boss category mob, has very low armor, and doesn't do ANYTHING but autoattack - absolutely perfect. Just find yourself a well-geared meatshield and healbot. Let the tank get a clear head start if necessary. Good luck. = )
Post by
Qlix
I would have to give single target sustainable DPS to a combat rogue. Just look at the shade of aran fight for evidence.
Im not even gonna say what i do on Shade... it would start a war... lol
as far as "those twilight guys" in Blasted Lands... does anyone have an exact name? there are no mobs with "Twilight" in the name in blasted lands
Post by
103184
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Kryz
as far as "those twilight guys" in Blasted Lands... does anyone have an exact name? there are no mobs with "Twilight" in the name in blasted lands
My bad, look
here
. I usually just fly to Hellfire, walk through the portal then find one off on the side of that crater and go to town on him.
Just remember, these guys are mid 50's, so your DPS will be higher on them than it would be on a raid mob (armor/defense), but it's nice to work things like this out. When you get hit 1200dps don't expect to bring that back to Kara with you.
Post by
Qlix
that link doesnt work for me... invalid security certificate... wowhead link please?
Post by
GoGoGodzilla
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Post by
106161
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Post by
Kryz
that link doesnt work for me... invalid security certificate... wowhead link please?
doh, I'm at work so I need to get around the firewall and forgot to change the link...lol
Post by
90985
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Post by
103184
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Post by
56282
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Post by
Qlix
The Rogue will always out DPS the other two classes... it's just what they do.
see i just cant agree with this.... at least not at the level that my server is at. We have 1 guild in BT on our server and that guild is leaps and bounds ahead of the rest of us so i dont even count them. Up against some of the best rogues on my server i, and every other BM hunter we roll with, always out do them by 300 dps.
and to shog... I guess by equal gear i mean of the same Tier i guess. Like a T5 hunter vs. T5 shammy vs. T5 rogue. And we all know that all fights are situational. this is why im lookin for some way to find a straight tank and spank type of fight with no other outside variables where we can all just do our thing for a specified period of time.
Post by
103184
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Qlix
The Rogue will always out DPS the other two classes... it's just what they do.
Up against some of the best rogues on my server i, and every other BM hunter we roll with, always out do them by 300 dps.
That's becasue hunters have free repeatable aggro reset.
yeah? so i suppose
Feint
isnt repeatable? And i assume by "free" you mean it doesnt cost the hunter anything. Mana is something and FD is on a longer CD than Feint is...
Post by
103184
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Qlix
yeah? so i suppose
Feint
isnt repeatable? And i assume by "free" you mean it doesnt cost the hunter anything. Mana is something and FD is on a longer CD than Feint is...
Feint
reduces
aggro, FD
wipes
it- huge difference.
ok... ill agree there is a difference. Im just tired of rogues and shamans coming off saying that hunters only do the damage they do because they can Feign Death. IMO a rogue should be spamming Feint as much as a hunter should be Feigning everytime its up. If a hunter doesnt... he pulls agro... same as a rogue. That rogue can Feint 3 times in the time it takes for me to FD once. Not a complete agro wipe no... but a "LARGE" reduction in threat. Hunters have no threat REDUCING abilities... just threat WIPING, rogues have no WIPING abilities rather REDUCING abilities and a much faster CD. Maybe i have to ask around but something tells me that most rogues out there dont spam it like they should and if they did... maybe we'd see something different.
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