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Still having trouble killing that guy
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Post by
Eleazer
I am needing some help here guys. I enjoy reading everyone but goshad :P. I am having a bit of trouble killing off DK's. I can pretty much fight to equal footing most other classes, but those shadow priests and dk's seem to just kick the snot out of me before I can even get them more than halfway.
Well, okay an spriest, I can get to 50 percent but their dots after dispersion just kill me off. Regardless of who I am fighting it's a constant battle to stay on the priest before he outdamages me. BG's and Arena's these guys just blow through me like I am not even there.
With DK's I can get the jump and attack, but man are they a pain, and when it's just me and him. I spend half the time running from him while trying to bandage myself and reset the fight. I need some tips on how to beat these guys. If it's 1v1 at the end of an arena match, I want to stand a chance, but it seems that even after the KS they still have most of their health. I have an easier time with prot warriors who are more annoying than spitballs to the back of the neck.
I am Sub with this
Spec
though I sometimes run as
Sub/Com
Any help or tips would be greatly appreciated. I looked through the search button, but the only thread I could find on killing off dk's is 2 years old.
Post by
Caperon
I am Sub with this
Spec
though I sometimes run as
Sub/Com
Thats your problem against dks.
Post by
446836
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
KidB
I enjoy reading everyone but goshad :P
Sigworthy.
Post by
Eleazer
I am Sub with this
Spec
though I sometimes run as
Sub/Com
Thats your problem against dks.
Come on Cap, I was hoping the Maestro would give me something besides dropping a troll comment on me. Both of the specs are fine, and work well, I just can't seem to sustain any type of sustainable kill rate on them. I can escape pretty well and reset the fight often, but they usually can heal up before I am done. Plus I get pummeled pretty quickly once that gosh-dang pet stuns me.
@Loc - My success against DK's is more like 30/70. Some days it feels more like 9 out of 10 times I lose. Especially 1v1, now if I am facing the dreaded P/W/DK teams with my RLP team it's a bit more work as we just CC him out until we kill off both healer and warrior. The problem is that if he is a smart dk he gets free and drops myself or the lock and then it's just about over.
As for Spriest it's more like 60/40 in their favor, depending on skill level really. I hate when I get ready to open up and he does a prep fear, and bammo it's dot, dot, dot flay!
Post by
Caperon
Priest:
Wait for its PWS to be atleast 14 seconds.
At this point you must sap.
After 2 saps, the shield should fall off.
Open now, this should give you a clear hit on his health pool.
Use this to do as much as damage as possible, to force him to go defensive.
A few pointers, dont use cloak untill you are gonna reset.
Dont reset when he does dispersion, this is a defensive cooldown and should work in your favor.
Its usually the second fear in which they start nuking you:
So either dont trinket the first one and try to bypass damage taken.
Or trinket the first and kill him before the second.
They usually do horror to get away from you at hard situations, pop
sprint
shadowstep and be ready to kick his hard cast.
Death knights:
Gah im not sure, since its a bit different when you are sub.
Start with cheap shot into kidney shot kill them slowly down.
When they pop all their cooldowns, just cloak and vanish. Wait for all their cds to expire.
They usually stun you right before kidney shot, trinket it and continue with kidney shot. Use evasion after it and try getting as much as damage off as possible.
Save your second evasion for when the ghoul stun comes back.
It has a 1 min cooldown, so either kill them before that or use evasion to dodge the stun or a few of his hits.
Except for that just try to always stay behind him, avoid everything you can and slowly kill him before he kills you.
Happy? ^^
Post by
Liquoid
Playing Subtlety against platers is a pain, unless you vastly outgear them.
Post by
335633
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Eleazer
Tip to beating any character you've duelled in extreme amounts:
Don't do the same thing twice.
Screw around with people. Hell, don't even open with CS.
Premed > Garrote > Rupture > Dismantle > Backstab/Hemo > Kidney Shot when dismantle falls off > Evasion when Kidney Shot falls off > ShD Garrote > CS > Ambush.
(use defensive CDs as necessary.)
Using things like this work because there are no strategies against them.
Unless your opponent is very skilled, they will be expecting certain things from you. Don't give them those things, but still maintain control.
Not having trouble with duels, it's more bg's and 1v1 endings in arena's. World pvp as well. Thanks for the idea of rotation. Getting the bleeds on first looks pretty good, because ambush is pretty sucky until I get more ArP.
Post by
Caperon
Seriously?
Was this what you were looking for?
A rotation?
Post by
Eleazer
Seriously?
Was this what you were looking for?
A rotation?
Negative, I was looking for ideas and approaches that were different than what I was doing.
I had never thought of opening with Garrote and then immediately dropping a rupture. It might work, and it was simply a basic line of attack.
I used the wrong word since there is no such thing as a rotation in pvp. Were you hurt because I didn't acknowledge your well thought out answer? Hold on, do you need a hug? My beard is a bit scratch but it still feels good when I hug ;P.
Thank you, Cap, for your help as well. I appreciate the insight into dealing with the spriest. I used it today. I still died, but it worked better than previous encounters. I used the trinket on the stun during a wsg today and built up 5cp rupture before finally being killed off by a freaking hunter who came out and caught me on the dk. The DK died shortly after I did. So it helped this time.
Post by
551048
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
335633
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Caperon
You want the truth? You simply don't kill DK's in that bracket, they own about everything, and rogues have never really stood a chance 1v1 against DK's. And GL killing shadow priests before you get cloak of shadows.
What?Not having trouble with duels, it's more bg's and 1v1 endings in arena's. World pvp as well. Thanks for the idea of rotation. Getting the bleeds on first looks pretty good, because ambush is pretty sucky until I get more ArP.
PvP? You don't want ArP. Ambush spam will still hit higher than any CP builder you have.
There is a new theory spreading out there that sub becomes better when you have a certain amount of arp.
I used the wrong word since there is no such thing as a rotation in pvp. Were you hurt because I didn't acknowledge your well thought out answer? Hold on, do you need a hug? My beard is a bit scratch but it still feels good when I hug ;P.
Meh.
Post by
DonaldW
Drop DW, get improved gouge and instead of glyph of vigor use glyph of gouge. Cheap 5.5s gouge will give you some time (I don't remember if you can gouge ghoul, if you can then you can blind him aswell iirc).
I'm currently using this build:
http://www.wowhead.com/talent#fhfcoZhZebfbhMddVzAfRt:bArcVm
Try to always spam backstab (waylay attack speed debuff really hurts), use clos before reset. Force him to use trinket in the very beginning, pool energy before reopening and spambush (you might want to save shadowstep to quickly get behind him (or to disorient him) after ambush opener).
Remember to pool energy when it's possible, even for backstab spam.
However most important thing is to get much arp! 40-50% is minimum for plate shredding, the more, the better. Giving up resi gear for arpen gear is a good idea (try to keep at least 700-800 resi if it's possible with at least 40-50% arp).
Poisons: wound mh / crippling oh (it's better than waylay movement debuff).
PS: if you're not planning to blind player it might be a good idea to give him a lovely rupture before reset.
PS2: you have 2x evasion, 2x dismantle (use second after DR). Try to use one when the other one is about to expire (best will be <= 1s).
PS3 (edit): FYI Arp is better against all classess except mages.
Post by
Eleazer
Donald,
I was under the impression about ArP as well, and have always been a huge fan of ArP in any form of physical dps class. I started off as a feral druid in arena's and switched to rogue for more control. I hate pooling energy, it always makes me feel like I am wasting it :P. Since we get so few back it makes it much tougher to spam Backstab, but I see your point.
As for Gouge, I rarely find a use for it except in 1v1 situations as an escape, and then the extra seconds don't really make a huge deal as I am getting ready to bandage/eat/vanish anyways. I have heard that it's much more beneficial than the offhand since we are solely about burst, so I may give that a try and see how it works.
I may stick with my combat spec for the extra hit/stam/evasion/haste. I like having the extra hit so I don't even have to worry about grabbing any hit gear at all. Though getting to 7 percent is so easy that it's pretty funny. I think imp eviscerate and the extra crit on Backstab are considered better, but if I am close to 70 percent crit on BS anyways, does the extra help?
Post by
Caperon
and the extra crit on Backstab are considered better, but if I am close to 70 percent crit on BS anyways, does the extra help?
Why wouldnt it?
Post by
Eleazer
and the extra crit on Backstab are considered better, but if I am close to 70 percent crit on BS anyways, does the extra help?
Why wouldnt it?
I was thinking about diminishing returns. 5 percent hit, extra Offhand damage, and more haste, I figure that would be more damage increase than more crit. The only two I like on Assassination side is Vigor and Imp Evisc.
Post by
Liquoid
If you're talking about Backstab specifically, why bother switching the subject to
Haste
?
Post by
Eleazer
If you're talking about Backstab specifically, why bother switching the subject to
Haste
?
To apply crippling and wound faster and more often, and a bit more melee damage between Backstabs.
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