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The Garrosh Thread
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Post by
Rankkor
I agree skree. I don't see where the suposedly "lack of quality" comes from.
I found it quite nice, and for those who are complaining about how it switches back and fort between the events after the dalaran summit and the arrival of garrosh to orgrimmar:
it's called a Flashback, and it's a way to tell a story and the background of that same story. Is not like something like that hasn't been done in the past. I mean they did it on The Godfather 2, wich many consider to be the best movie sequel of all times (and in that movie the plot switches back and fort between michael's rise to power, and his father Victor's rise to power several decades earlier)
the * * * signal should be enough warning that what you are about to read happened before/after the previous event.
Post by
taurenmoo812
I don't want to shoot your post down... but I honestly wonder whether you read it and thought "How can I make this insulting to Garrosh as a character?"
you want to know why? Its simple really. See, I've made it clear in the past, when I think of the horde as a whole, the orcs are the race a most defined in the way of the horde. My mains an orc shaman for a reason, and since it all began there actions depicted the way the horde was going.
And, its disheartening to see the orcs as a whole changing back into thos warlike, near honorless fashion in cata. I realise this is the design of the story, but it doesn't make it any less somber to me.
its like, seeing the lore unfold in cata so far, I've gone from thinking of the orcs in the best possible sense, with honor and as a race that overcame its own adversity.. to just being like the orcs I read about in rise of the horde. The stonetalon questchain was a bad knock to what I thought of the orcs.
And this all has happened, under Garrosh as warchief. its association. The orcs, who I use to admire as a race, now I think of so many with contempt, on how they went back on themselves. Much like the shaman Shin said, things use to be so much better, what happened to the orcs.
Its one of the main reasons I hate Garrosh so much. When I found wow and the orcs and saw them with this savage yet honorable fashion, I actully found something more intresting then any other genre with orcs in it. However, if I had come into warcraft from cata start, I don't think I'd have found it, it certainly isn't the same orcs I thought so much of.
Well I admire the tauren, trolls and even in a way the goblins, its like how I felt about the orcs changed with cata, and i'm just hoping something good comes out of this in the end.
So, if I'm have no intrest in wanting to see someone try and develop Garrosh in whatever way they might try, its because not just whos leading the orcs, but the orcs themselves I'm dishearted by, when I know they should be better then this.
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
Also, rank, I'd like it if you didn't consider me a complete moron that doesn't know !@#$ about narrative and the different means at a writer's disposal in order to establish said narrative. I don't know if you noticed (probably not, considering you took the time to write that little condescending bit), but I'm not an idiot
U_U bro' I don't consider you an idiot, and yes I know my posts tend to sound condescending quite often, but blame my faulty english for it, not me. I'm not a native english speaker, so often my wording implies the wrong idea when I'm trying to say something. Take in Consideration that I learned english from a dictionary, you can guess why my words sound like they try to teach you stuff you already know.
if it's any consolation, talking to me in spanish I don't sound condescending at all.
having cleared that missunderstanding let's move on.
I do not like the story because I do not like the writing
you're entitled to your opinion as I'm entitled to mine. if you don't like the writing, that's your taste, and you expressed why you don't like it, just as I expressed why I liked it.
honestly I don't see a point to the story - it doesn't flesh out Garrosh more than what was already established, it doesn't really attempt to do much beyond trying to redeem the Broken Front and that wasn't Garrosh.
Some stories don't need to have a point. Simple aditions to the background can sometimes be nice. This is why it's a 7page story rather than a full blown book. If anything, the short-story showed that garrosh valued thrall's opinion of him and was clearly hurt when thrall said he was disapointed of him (at first we assumed garrosh didn't care, now we know he did) and that at the very least something was done to krom for his action on the broken front.
as to why wasn't a harsher action taken against him, do remember that krom did not ORDER his troops to attack the alliance on the broken front. His troops did that without anyone ordering it, and Krom was praising and lauding their actions, and for this he was reprimended. If he had explicitely ordered that cowardly attack I assume he would had at least been demoted to grunt and placed at the front lines.
the short story was meant to add slight bits of info about the current leaders of the alliance and horde. Expect varian's short story, and Gelbin's short story, and Velen's short story, and Baine's short story ect ect to be as trivial as this one.
they are optional non-essential bits of lore that add some info on the characters, but are not milestones or pivotal moments of their lives.
Second, excessive flashbacking does not make for a good story
Sorry bro' but on this
Your mileage may vary
Excessive flashbacking was used INTENSIVELY on "The Godfather 2" and it is one of the most critically aclaimmed sequels of all times, achieving cult-status almost imidietly, and being one of the most memorable movies in the history of filming. I understand if flashbacks aren't your cup of tea, but some people love them. Be them scarse or abundant.
"
It's a work of fiction. It's a metaphor. It's not real, and therefore you can either like it or not like it. Whatever
"
George Lucas
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
Expect varian's short story, and Gelbin's short story, and Velen's short story, and Baine's short story ect ect to be as trivial as this one.
Wasn't it only Garrosh, Varian, Greymane and Gallywix being covered this time around?
those are examples
King Varian Wrynn, Queen Sylvanas Windrunner, King Genn Greymane, and Trade Prince Gallywix—these
are just a few
of the leaders who continue to shape Azeroth's destiny
I'm asuming that every leader of the alliance and horde will get a short story about them. And from what I saw of garrosh's sidestory, I'm asuming the short stories of the other leaders will be equally trivial, and non-essential. (Unlike for example, the shattering, wich is indispensable to read if you wish to have any clue of what the hell is happening on azeroth)
notice how garrosh wasn't in the list of examples and yet he was the first to have his story.
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
Trade Prince Gallywix
Unrelated to the topic but I get the feeling this guy will die in his story.
=O that could explain why the hell he's nowhere to be seen in azeroth.
not even the all-knowing-all-sapient database of Wowhead can pinpoint his location anywhere else other than kezan and lost island.
so either he's a hermit, or he died at some point between the goblin's induction to the horde, and the shattering.
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
BlueShoals
I'm glad that, for once, we have a leader who will not bow away from his enemies just because it's the polite or diplomatic thing to do.
I'm very, very glad to be going to war with the Alliance after two expansions of working together with them. (when we didn't need them anyway! I didn't see any allies in my world-saving raids!)
Post by
389643
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Chandrialla
All in all Garrosh is slowly becoming a much better character than I thought he would be, I still have my sigh and headdesk in frustration with many of his actions, but at least it's know that his heart is in the right place. Now inf we could only point the brain at the right direction.
Well, he could always open a chain of shoe stores called Osh Kosh Garrosh
Post by
taurenmoo812
In my own opinion, I find it gawling the way they 'developed' Garrosh.
What it strikes me as, what they intended to do, what they thought of first, was to make the cataclysm into a war. That was the first plan, and it's been coming probably since wotlk. Notice how Garrosh had like no character development in tbc. All a sudden they decided to do it after then.
Its like, with Thrall, they developed him and defined him from the get go. He wasn't a background character, you saw him story from a close angle and it made to actully see why Thrall became who he was. In the same light, you can see this from characters like Doomhammer and Durotan. When you first read about these characters, you knew they had a greater purpose.
But with Garrosh though, anyone who actully read beyond the dark portal, if they can say they thought the same of Garrosh, the sickly little orc in nagrand, I'd have you swear blind you weren't lying.
See, blizzard obviously planned this war in cataclysm, even before details were drawn out. And so, they basicly used Garrosh as the perfect scapegoat.. but didn't take into account just how little a developed character he was. They didn't even develop his story themselves in any greater details, for them, he was just the perfect tool to instigate a war in cata.
It's only when the fans started to bring it up how badly developed he was that they realised how badly they developed him, and so as to not appear like there were clueless in there story making, they hired a fan to write his history, rather then do it themselves.
A character with more holes then a pinball machine being made warchief, replacing a character that did have some solid history, and they had to justify it, rather then admitting outright they screwed up to begin with. sort of covering there tracks.
Post by
Rankkor
It's only when the fans started to bring it up how badly developed he was that they realised how badly they developed him, and so as to not appear like there were clueless in there story making, they hired a fan to write his history, rather then do it themselves.
weren't you a few weeks ago clamoring that the fans were aproving of blizz's desition to replace garrosh? I recall that MULTIPLE times in the past I've told you how much garrosh is an ACTING warchief, (even in the shattering thrall states in the last chapter that garrosh is acting warchief) and you said that the fans would love him so much blizz would change their minds about him and leave him there permanently.
now you say the fans hate him?
I'd like to know where do you research that.
Post by
Adamsm
Rank, it's Tauren the troll; just let him rant and ignore his crap.
I mean come on, he used to scream all the time "Garrosh will turn the Horde into Fel Orcs again!", and he's been screaming about Thrall being gone(hell look at that post, one small paragraph about Garrosh, the rest was about how much he loves Thrall); the guy hasn't been happy about anything for the last year and half, I think by this point we just need to ignore his comments about everything.
Post by
taurenmoo812
Rank, it's Tauren the troll; just let him rant and ignore his crap.
I mean come on, he used to scream all the time "Garrosh will turn the Horde into Fel Orcs again!", and he's been screaming about Thrall being gone(hell look at that post, one small paragraph about Garrosh, the rest was about how much he loves Thrall); the guy hasn't been happy about anything for the last year and half, I think by this point we just need to ignore his comments about everything.
your as fine one to call someone a troll when you voice your opinion on every single matter on every thread on these forums. Seems your the one more intent on voicing what he has to say then anyone else, even when its wrong, and you post count speaks for itself.
Anyway, to anwser you Rank, so much is based off between what I want to see happen against the larger community of what is happening right now. I see how it went from people hating garrosh, and all it took was one fanboy story and suddenly everyone likes him. It seems well blizzard was intent on shoving Garrosh in a major spotlight, they couldn't find a way to develop him themselves.
See unlike Nobundo, whos story was an online one and far less people knew about his backstory from it, Garrosh is more shoved in the foreground unlike Nobundo, he's been made leader of the horde, and for something like that, you would consider someone with a more worked on or developed history to be the leader of the horde, rather then a scapegoat character they worked on After he was made so. That is just poor storytelling.
But then, blizzard seemed more intent on going for controversal in cata then what makes sense. This war in cata isn't actully going to be won on either side, thats a fact, so all it really is is a another grudge match with no clear winners.
Post by
Monday
your as fine one to call someone a troll when you voice your opinion on every single matter on every thread on these forums. Seems your the one more intent on voicing what he has to say then anyone else, even when its wrong, and you post count speaks for itself.
At least he'll say different stuff besides "Garrosh is suckzorz thrall is teh awesomz."
Post by
Adamsm
Careful Funden, he'll target you for your post count too.
Post by
Monday
I'll risk it. But I better grab my
anti-troll shotgun
as well.
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