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Better to use FB than Rip?
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Post by
129046
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
curlymon
Black Magic is showing to be quite an effective option for very late game Ferals as well as it can proc on Shred/Mangle. (it's in the latest Rawr for testing if you want)
Very late game as in as late as...
ArP capped
Hit capped
Exp soft capped
...more?...
Crit capped
...or what? How late?
I've not looked at it numbers wise yet but my understanding of it is Post ArPen/Crit caps but at the same times as you are working on HIt/Exp caps.
Edit: Both Rawr and Simcraft have updates with this info as far as I understand it. Simcraft can have Rawr character saves imported directly so fiddle as you can/will.
Post by
pelf
So, does that mean Scourgebane is still the best (not counting its uselessness vs. Halion)?
Post by
Falkor
best in icc & its cheap! at least with those stat weights, can anyone find him icc ones just in case?
Post by
curlymon
With ferals history of using previous expansions chants I wonder how effective BM will stay once Cata lands. Depending on haste scaling this might actually be a fairly bursty leveling chant until you hit 85 scaling at the very least.
Post by
129046
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
curlymon
They are still trying to nail down what exactly procs BM for ferals and until they do uptime calcs are not going to be to exact. It is currently estimated to be Mangle and Shred that proc the chant but there is some speculation that OoC can proc the chant as well.
Edit: I am dissapointed in the OP for changing to the title of this thread and while there has been some less then helpful discussion there has also been some good insight to a lot of aspects of feral druiding, Changing the title is probably going to get the tread either renamed, locked or deleted and it is sad to lose what has been discussed if it is removed.
Post by
Falkor
i think if any mod read through this all the way they wouldnt lock it. maybe delete more of the detracting posts.....but surprisingly this has some good info in it.
also BM would only come into play at the highest gear lvls would it not? like after all the caps are met thats when haste gets good to use?
Post by
Gnub
I am dissapointed in the OP for changing to the title of this thread and while there has been some less then helpful discussion there has also been some good insight to a lot of aspects of feral druiding, Changing the title is probably going to get the tread either renamed, locked or deleted and it is sad to lose what has been discussed if it is removed.
So am I - I tried renaming the thread to reflect the original question the best (keep in mind that I'm absolutely clueless in regards to anything regarding Feral Druids on a higher level than "OMG I HITS WITH MAH CLAWS RAWR!"), so I hope that the discussion will continue on a good level - as it seemingly does.
The thread does indeed seem to have a lot of nice relevant information - keep it at that :)
Post by
129046
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
curlymon
I tried renaming the thread to reflect the original question the best (keep in mind that I'm absolutely clueless in regards to anything regarding Feral Druids on a higher level than "OMG I HITS WITH MAH CLAWS RAWR!")
You got the title on the button, thanks for keeping the thread around!
also BM would only come into play at the highest gear lvls would it not? like after all the caps are met thats when haste gets good to use?
For those in the know I believe it would be when haste becomes a competitive stat, which is post ArPen and Crit soft-cap from my understanding of things as it is now. If you have the free time, take a look into it's modeling within Rawr(v.2.3.19 or later) and Simcraft. I don't have the feral experience to build realistic gear sets for varying amounts of stats to make any worthwhile comparison or break-point suggestions unfortunately.
And Curly, I would think that to be fairly simple to test. Auto attack and wait for OoC procs, see if they proc BM
Yeah, I'm just reporting information and speculation. It's been posted into the major gear/sim programs so I felt it was worthwhile to make those here aware of the possibilites. I've yet to find any of the original testing done for this, but with the seriousness of the discussion on well known sites, I am inclined to believe that it is to be seriously considered.
Mangle and Shred are confirmed but there is still a question as to why they can proc it (some thing it might be IW applications). I'm not sure if white damage procs it or not, and OoC procs are of course still in question.
Post by
404185
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Post by
144872
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
132589
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
curlymon
Aww i missed it, what did he change it too?
(something dumb i assume)
Something about "Wowhead Posters being <expletive symbol spam>"
Post by
Eleazer
So as far as we can assume for the time being depending on gear our best dps enchant is determined by the amount of contact time with our target. I never thought of scourgebane. I have always ran with Berzerking or BM though based on my dps gear level BM is not as good. I haven't even reached ArP cap yet. 1164 and counting!
The major downside to Scourgebane is it's solely beneficial in ICC and loses it's value in every other instance and in pvp situations.
I was thinking with the new changes that
0/55/16
is probably your max dps build with NI and ImpLotP being interchangeable. Granted you could max either of them out and remove a point from FA.
Now here is where I generally become confused. I have heard glyph of shred was better than rip, but I have never done the math to figure out the difference, and found the rip glyph to just be more consistent a dps increase. Since we are looking at Scourgebane and Massacre as a better dps enchant because of their consistency wouldn't rip be a better glyph.
Finally, I have read that the agility enchants are better for overall dps than ap enchants, but if we are crit capped than are the AP enchants back on top?
Perhaps these are older questions, but it seems to be sometimes we need to refresh our memory. BTW, SI on Sindragosa, BQ, BP, Festergut, and numerous other bosses is a life saver. I have used it numerous times in conjunction with Frenzied regeneration. Though it has saved my life more often at Putricide.
Post by
Aadramelekh
I have heard glyph of shred was better than rip
Why are you even comparing them? Both should be used in a max DPS talent build anyway. And yes, if you are crit capped, AP enchants become a good alternative. But anyway, the whole crit cap thing is mostly about melee attacks, which make up for ~35% of total damage. Special attacks have the crit cap close to 100% (depending on buffs and crit suppression), so agility still remains a solid option.
Post by
Eleazer
I have heard glyph of shred was better than rip
Why are you even comparing them? Both should be used in a max DPS talent build anyway. And yes, if you are crit capped, AP enchants become a good alternative. But anyway, the whole crit cap thing is mostly about melee attacks, which make up for ~35% of total damage. Special attacks have the crit cap close to 100% (depending on buffs and crit suppression), so agility still remains a solid option.
Well, because I forgot to change my Berzerk Glyph out. I was using it for some pvp burst fun, and forgot to take it out. I believe that Berzerk was listed as an alternative glyph on EJ's. My bad on that one :P.
I really do hate all the number juggling of feral dps. My Rawr is always changing as to which is best.
Post by
Aadramelekh
Oh man... All these numbers, all the simulators... Bleh
It's all about
the feeling
, man. That's how you play feral DPS at its best!
LOL @ captcha: "species vexing"
Post by
Falkor
BTW, SI on Sindragosa, BQ, BP, Festergut, and numerous other bosses is a life saver. I have used it numerous times in conjunction with Frenzied regeneration. Though it has saved my life more often at Putricide.
SI is good for sindra if your guild just lets you build buffet stacks in p2 (or p3 if you call it that). i get assigned to kill tombs so i clear stacks, so i dont use it there
BQ it can be ok if you dont spread out after fear properly or run through fire/dont collapse fast enough. those are pretty easy mechanics that my guild has down, so i dont use it there
fester it can be ok if you miss 2 spores. on heroic 10m i only had 2 spores and survived perfectly fine with just barkskin and a cookie.
putricide? if you collapse on green and kite red you should be in the clear, idk about heroic mode tho.
SI can certainly save your skin, but i havent found it necessary yet so i havent spec'd into it. did 4 heroic modes last night and didnt fine it needed once, other people dying were causing some problems but i was always fine.
as for scourgebane. didnt know it was that good, i really like mongoose to get close to crit cap on good weps, but my current one was a sidegrade i was testing so i slapped it on there. only thing i do outside of icc is my daily hero and the weekly. and dps isnt really important in either.
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