This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Live
PTR
10.2.7
PTR
10.2.6
Beta
Gevlon's PvP guild... is officially dusted. Why?
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
Squishalot
Or so he says.
Was the call for a lock on the previous thread in relation to this forthcoming piece of news, Arathian?
Anyway, he claims that the reason why it didn't / wasn't going to work was because there isn't a suitable means of feedback to provide gratification for the players (a la Recount / DPS meters), nor is there a suitable means of progression to identify success by (a la 8/12 ICC).
What do you guys think? Are there enough feedback and progression measures in PvP (aside from Arena) to keep people interested? Or should we manufacture some of our own?
Post by
Wildhorn
There is clearly no feedback for PvP unlike Recount for PvE.
Post by
Squishalot
You could easily set up a Recount style addon for PvP. Hell, BGs even have 'Damage Done', 'Healing Done', 'Killing Blows', 'Honor Kills' all spelt out for you.
It wouldn't capture everything, just as Recount doesn't measure a player's total value. But it's a starting point. My brother, for example, measures my worth in Arena by my damage done (though admittedly, it's not entirely fair, because I either get squished, or I get freecasting and wipe the floor with them)
Post by
cloudp
But there's too much influencing it. My damage done to a 0 resillience target is not my damage done to a 1500 resillience target. Players can pop defensive cooldowns in a bit. If I just wasted a super cooldown (Imagine a PoM pyro mages failling two pyroblasts in a row to a Cloaked rogue), my damage lowers immenselly. PvE objectives don't have this sort of things to mess up with the numbers. Also, there are countless situations where a DPS must go defensive, and those are not nearly as common as in PvP. And there are actually some fights (Patchwerk) where all that counts is how well you time your stuff. You have nothing of the likes in pvp.
Gevlon is right in that.
It is his super-generalization about the PvPers is what I wouldn't buy. I personally would include myself in none of his super-generalized categories, because he completelly discards any player that enjoys
both
PvE and PvP.
Post by
tugipus
You could easily set up a Recount style addon for PvP. Hell, BGs even have 'Damage Done', 'Healing Done', 'Killing Blows', 'Honor Kills' all spelt out for you.
It wouldn't capture everything, just as Recount doesn't measure a player's total value. But it's a starting point. My brother, for example, measures my worth in Arena by my damage done (though admittedly, it's not entirely fair, because I either get squished, or I get freecasting and wipe the floor with them)
The difference between PvE and PvP is that independent of the fight mechanics numerical feedback like DSP is always important in PvE and rather unimportant in PvP to an extend that focusing on those numerical statistics is detrimental to the overall success (aka HK farming). Doing lots of dmg/healing in arena is usually worth less than a single well timed cc.
People on this forum are probably more interested in finer things like mastering your class than average but most people need visual proof of their progress like achivements and items to stay focused on something, if they dont get something, they lose interest.
Rated BG's is an attempt to introduce another "feedback" mechanism into PvP aside from arena and PvP achievements.
Post by
179738
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Wildhorn
@Grimbard: Except that when you are only 6 in WG, you can't afford to have someone with a catapult.
Post by
179738
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
tentacleboy
Having a retard on a catapult or having one less retard is the same thing gameplay-wise, except in the second example there is one less retard to deal with, so I'll take the 5 in WG over the 5 + 1 retard.
Post by
Wildhorn
tentacleboy is right. Better to have 1 less retard and more tenacity than a retard with a catapult feeding horde.
Post by
Squishalot
Sorta.... if you've only got one base (the only time when you'll be limited by the +1 in a cat), then you're pretty much screwed anyway, since they can camp your aproach, tenacity or not.
We've got our local WG troll on Saurfang. His management style is abhorrent - everyone's a retard or an arsehole if they're not doing what he's telling them to do. And if we lose, he'll head into trade chat and abuse the entire server for being a pack of retards and not helping / screwing up. It's just not nice.
There are better ways to keep people interested.
Post by
255458
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
moocow
He admits that he didn't lead it right at the end of the article, and that's the reason I'm going with why it failed. Saying that he "obviously refuse(s) to do this huge work in my free time" might sound acceptable when preaching to the choir, but it sure looks like a copout from where I'm sitting.One of his big philosophies is "don't do stuff for free", and Undergeared works fine with the same leadership. So yeah.
Post by
250582
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Wildhorn
Personally, I think Blizzard need to add more PvP stuff in zones (and I mean every zones). Something that happens every 2 hours, could be:
- Simple tower cap like in Hellfire/Terrokar (for low level zones)
- Maybe like Silithus lolsand, but way less tedious, something more like get 10 items from Y place to Z place. Each faction would have a Y place and the Z place would be the same for both faction.
- Escort a caravan (would alternate between faction who escort it and who destroye it). The "caravane" would be a slow moving siege engine like with tons of turrets and what not. You could not control it, but you could get aboard it to control turrets and such.
- Defend the heavy-armored keep vs a heavy-armored ship assault. (would alternate between faction who defend and who attack).
Something that if your faction control would gives:
- Bonus to xp/honor/arena/conquest/whatever gain
- Bonus to damage
Plus something from this list:
- Extra Ore/Herbs/Skin/Gold looted
- Exclusive Ore/Herbs/Skin nods/mobs
- Exclusive access to some dungeons/raids
- Exclusive access to some vendors with special loot (mount/pet/pvp items/cheap consumable, etc).
Something big enough that players WANT to participate.
Post by
Squishalot
Something big enough that players WANT to participate.
Well, that's what Wintergrasp is about, right? Bonus to XP if your faction controls it, access to raid, access to vendors.
In theory, that's what the Outland ones are for too, but look at Halaa - nobody does anything there, because noone gives two hoots about the levelling process anymore.
It'll also be useless on most PvP servers, because of the Alliance / Horde imbalance on said servers.
Blaming it on a lack of performance/progression measure is... a questionable assertion at best, a flagrant cop-out at worst. Should not the actual victories themselves serve as a statistic to measure progress/performance? Perhaps a balancing as populations as he foretold? A measurement of Horde QQ?
I agree, I do think it's quite the cop-out. But I've made my view on that relatively clear in comments on his blog.
Realistically, it didn't fail because of a lack of performance measure, it failed because of a lack of performance and people started to see that. How many people server-transferred out of Horde Magtheridon in the time that Gevlon's ganking guild was around? Is it significantly different from the months prior?
Or, you could turn it around another way and say it failed because Gevlon managed to find himself surrounded, yet again, by the M&S that he hates so passionately, and so *he* failed due to a lack of performance measurement of the people around him.
Post by
610655
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Wildhorn
Well, that's what Wintergrasp is about, right? Bonus to XP if your faction controls it, access to raid, access to vendors.
Yes and as you can see many people participate to it too. Problem is there is only 1 of these event every 2.5 hours. If there was more, there would be constant PvP action going on.
In theory, that's what the Outland ones are for too, but look at Halaa - nobody does anything there, because noone gives two hoots about the levelling process anymore.
I do not agree. People participate alot in the Hellfire one. They do not participate in the Nagrand one because most of time, you only stay 1 or 2 level in nagrand before being level 68 (if you go there at all, personaly, I only need hellfire + Zang + terrokar to be 68) and moving to northrend.
It'll also be useless on most PvP servers, because of the Alliance / Horde imbalance on said servers.
Not true. Ganking project showed up that few competent > bunch of incompetent.
If blizzard could add a limiting factor on character creation, this would help alot. Like if balance reach 3:1 on either a side, you can't create character on that realm of the faction that is overpopulated (it would consider only characters of a certain level to prevent people to make a lvl 1 on the other side just to be able to make one on the side they want).
Post by
167408
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Kibbles
Sorta.... if you've only got one base (the only time when you'll be limited by the +1 in a cat), then you're pretty much screwed anyway, since they can camp your aproach, tenacity or not.
We've got our local WG troll on Saurfang. His management style is abhorrent - everyone's a retard or an arsehole if they're not doing what he's telling them to do. And if we lose, he'll head into trade chat and abuse the entire server for being a pack of retards and not helping / screwing up. It's just not nice.
There are better ways to keep people interested.
your WG troll reminds me of Snacky. Grizzly Hills much?
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.