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Yet another 'ready for MM armor pen?' thread.
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Post by
79224
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Post by
550420
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Post by
Rilgon
do I need a better ranged weapon?
To go MM? Probably. Shoot for Talonstrike (ToC25), Rifled Blastershot Launcher (Ony25), or Njorndar Bone Bow (ICC10).
And no, if you have the T9 bonus as you ought to (Helm and Legs), that helm is abysmal.
Looking over your gear, you're doing a lot of things exactly as I'd hope to see. Your next sort of upgrade path is to start shedding your +Hit gear (Precious' Putrid Collar, Icecrown Rampart Bracers) and use Focused Aim to cover any gaps while getting more Crit, ArPen, and the like.
Post by
Lorkin
I'd wait for a new weapon before you make the full switch. You still are missing some key pieces:
|
Weapon
|
Trinket
|
Bracers
|
Ring
|
Those key pieces should get you closer to the Arm Pen you need. Not sure what you prof's are but JC/BS would complete it.
Post by
613041
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
LoqueNahak
i miss the time all i had to do was stack AP and agility.. it was much easier
True, but switching gear pieces here and there... is fun too. I mean it gives more variety instead of just pushing the same button over and over
:-)
Post by
Rilgon
i hate hunters havig to gem and stalk ArPen. i miss the time all i had to do was stack AP and agility.. it was much easier
How has anything changed? Until you hit a threshold where ArPen is better per point than Agility, you continue to *gasp* get Hit to cap, then stack Agi and Crit, taking ArPen where it comes.
ArPen is not a hard stat to grasp in its basics. Every point you get makes the next point that much better.
Post by
Lorkin
Ran your numbers through femaledwarf:
For Agi gemming:
Agility + 1.........1.852........1.852
ArP + 1.............1.573........1.573
For Arm Pen gemming:
Agility + 1.........1.925.......1.925
ArP + 1.............1.564.......1.564
In both cases, you're better off sticking to agility gems. Items like the
Banner
are good to inflate your armor pen numbers, but little else. You really need such items like DBW's and an ICC weapon before I would personally making the switch.
Post by
LoqueNahak
Ran your numbers through femaledwarf
It seems like femaledwarf is almost an official WoW tool, where any given number reflects the ingame scenario 100%. I'd love to have an official word from Blizzard like "we encourage using it because it actually shows how ingame stuff works". I mean... a spreadsheet is just a (sophisticated) way to crunch numbers. Fighting a boss with ingame mechanics, procs, movement, human reaction, lag and whatever... imho is a lot different.
Post by
79224
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Post by
Lorkin
There's nothing official about it, or any of the mods we use nowadays. But if you try to heal without grid, xperl, clique, or any of those "unofficial" mods, then you are just doing it wrong. Even DBM is almost required for all the raids I've been to.
It's not going to represent the way you play, all the random effects, etc. There's no way to build a simulator that will predict that. It's BEST use is as a diff (difference) tool. You compare one set of gear to another, and see the difference.
Given all things equal, if you changed this slightly, what would be different. That's the power of the tool and that's how people should use it. The most common use of it is to decide when to make the jump from SV to MM, when to drop arcane shot, and when to switch to Full Armor Pen Gems for the hard cap.
If you try to use it to play the game for you, you are doing it wrong.
Post by
Rilgon
The only 'spare' point I have is efficiency, and maybe TSA. (unless I'm misunderstanding my talents)
Focused Aim, if you're shedding Hit to use better (Crit/ArPen/AP) gear, is far more DPS per point than Improved Steady.
Post by
LoqueNahak
if you try to heal without grid, xperl, clique, or any of those "unofficial" mods, then you are just doing it wrong
These addons are completely different. They are "help tools" that simply reorganize ingame stuff/info/graphics to be shown/presented in a different way. They do not give numbers out of nowhere, they're deeply nested into the Wow interface.
It's BEST use is as a diff (difference) tool. You compare one set of gear to another, and see the difference. Given all things equal, if you changed this slightly, what would be different.
You can do that with WowHead too, using the item/sets comparison. Femaledwarf actually attempts to reproduce the ingame mechanics, it's not a comparison tool in any way imho. A comparison is one thing (and I understand its use). Trying to reproduce ingame mechanics and assuming that you're 100% safe using the tool is just another story.
The most common use of it is to decide when to make the jump from SV to MM, when to drop arcane shot, and when to switch to Full Armor Pen Gems for the hard cap
I understand your point and please don't get me wrong: I think the spreadsheet is an amazing piece of coding/work. What I doubt, to be honest, is its application to real scenarios. It's not a "sandbox" that uses the same ingame engine/mechanics. It's a
mathematical model
that attempts to reproduce ingame "stuff".
If you try to use it to play the game for you, you are doing it wrong.
Well, considering that people use the spreadsheet to decide where to spend emblems, switch items or not and so on... I'd say that YES, people actually use it to play for them (in some way).
Post by
Rilgon
It's not a "sandbox" that uses the same ingame engine/mechanics. It's a
mathematical model
that attempts to reproduce ingame "stuff".
You say that like it's a bad thing.
Most of the formulae that run WoW are well known. There's no reason a mathematical model CAN'T work.
And Simcraft is even more verbose and powerful than Shandara's/Zeherah's - able to simulate forced movement and raid gimmicks.
All this insulting of simulators is getting really old.
Post by
347407
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Post by
LoqueNahak
All this insulting of simulators is getting really old.
You misunderstood me and I was not trying to denigrate femaledwarf, at all. It's just... when people ask something, 99% of the answers are
"plug your toon to fdw.com and see"
.
I perfectly understand the concept of model and theorycrafting. But the way the site is used/referred, it seems it's like the final answer for anytihing (when people ask about gems, arpen, upgrades, etc).
Anyway that's just my opinion, did not mean to offend anyone.
Post by
Rilgon
Because it usually is.
Yes, Simcraft is better, but Simcraft is also nearly unapproachable by most of the community. Zeherah's Calculator is simple, extremely accurate for stand-still encounters, and really only has the problem of over-valuating Haste in some situations.
Is it as accurate as, say, Aldriana's Spreadsheet for Rogues? No. But it's a hell of a lot better than most non-Simcraft options for most classes.
Post by
Lorkin
It's just... when people ask something, 99% of the answers are
"plug your toon to fdw.com and see"
.
I think that generally is the answer because people want you to check your own toon instead of having people do it for you. It's like saying, "figure it out for yourself" instead of asking us to do it.
Whether you use femaledwarf, rawr, wowhead, or any other tools to figure out the best gear configuration for your toon, really only you can decide what is best for your performance. These tools are out there and people should be made aware of them. It's a repeating rhetorical answer because these tools really can answer for you if you should do one thing vs the other.
As for gearlists, wowhead still strongly favors hit rating. There is no filter that allows you to assign gear vs you being at the hit cap so wowhead will always favor gear with hit rating on it. Some sights like
hunterloot.com
allow you to assign that you are already at the hit cap, even allows you to import your armory.
Femaledwarf takes it a step further and allows to you configure gems/enchants, and even flasks/elixirs and different food buffs. It's a very powerful tool and gives hunter optimization a completely OP feeling. They have tools like this (like Rawr) for other classes but hunter's have it good. We should learn to appreciate and use it.
Post by
LoqueNahak
We should learn to appreciate and use it.
I prefer just using the super-basic wowhead comparison tool when swapping stuff, mostly to check if adding-removing gear pieces I will gain/lose, agi, crit, ap, arp or hit. Nothing else.
That said, maximum respect for these kind of works, because I perfectly know what knowledge and effort are needed to code them. As said above, I don't use them because I
personally
just do not trust they reflect any (useful) gameplay scenario, that's all (and that's just me, ofc).
Post by
Neutronimity
Let's return to the original topic, and, if needed, take the theorycrafting discussion to a new thread in the
Theorycrafting
forums. :-)
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