This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Live
PTR
10.2.7
PTR
10.2.6
Beta
Warrs n Sindragos10 hc
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
141313
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Thror
You tank ICC 10+25 heroic and have no clue about your main tanks abilities? So what that he is not your class? I just find that rather sad.
Nothing
trivializes
the damage of Frost Breath. Frost Resistance will help you mitigate it, but it will always hit like a truck.
This is almost embarrasing to ask, but you do know how to drop Mystic Buffet stacks?
Post by
138583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Thror
Nothing
trivializes
the damage of Frost Breath. Frost Resistance will help you mitigate it, but it will always hit like a truck.
This
trivilalises everything and no wonder DK has no problems.
Heh, true of course. When i said "nothing can trivialize it", i was kinda thinking in the gear dimensions. DKs are awesome for Sindragosa, but a warrior is definitely not bad for the fight either.
(btw, back in patch 3.1, Mimirons plasma blast could still easily raep my DK even through AMS. good times!)
Post by
141313
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
138583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Porcell
There is no reason not to use Frost Resistance. Gear for the encounter, that's what we always tell people. You end up losing a thousand or so Armor, maybe a thousand or two Health, and in return you cut the frost damage you take in half. And half the damage you take in this fight is frost damage, so that's effectively a 25% reduction in the damage you take throughout the fight.
Our DK tank, using Frost Resistance, the damage breakdown he's seeing is:
51% Melee,
22% Frost Aura,
8% Chilled to the Bone,
7% Cleave
6% Phase 2 Frost Breaths
5.5% Phase 1 Frost Breaths
<2% Other (Blistering Cold, Backlash Splash, Tail Smash, etc)
Note that's WITH frost resistance. That 37000-43000 Frost Breath attack is an average of 12k hits in phase 1 and around 20k hits in phase 2 (due to the debuff). Those 40k Frost Breaths hitting someone with no frost resistance except Aura will hit for either ~35K (if they get a 10% resist), 32K (for a 20% resist), or as low as 25K (if you are lucky and get a 30% resist). With full resistance you'll see many full resists and be resisting a minimum of 50%, with an average resist of around 70%.
In 10 man, our MT was seeing Melee Swings and Cleave in Sindragosa Hardmode of around 10k. That's nothing. You need to keep in mind that with the Debuff, the Frost damage scales up, whereas the melee damage will always be the same. That makes Frost Resistance even more attractive.
Now 25 man Hardmode is another story. We were seeing 30k and up to 40k melee swings at times. Average ended up being around 25k on melee swings. While Frost Breaths were still hitting for 30k, they come less frequently and are a much less concern than 30-40k melee swings coming every second or so. The 10k swings from 10-man are much easier to handle, so it's better to protect for the big-ticket Frost Breaths.
Post by
Buttery
^^
Exactly, gear for the encounter. Once you are able to survive a couple melee hits, that is when the breath scaling screws you. Essentially, the melee dmg is constant over time, but the burst of the breath at a bad time, is what puts you over the top and kills you.
If you can take 3 melee hits before you die, will you go down to two hits til death if you lose a piece of gear? if not, then that is safe to go to frost resist for that slot. IMHO, finding that right balance is the key for hardmode sindragosa.
Also, as someone who has also healed sindy (reg tho), the only challenging bit is the sudden spike of dmg as I happen to be running btwn blocks. So, ideally, you want to be able to take a frost breath + melee and survive with enough hp so that a instant heal can bring you up enough to take one more melee.
Using random numbers breath = 30k and melee is 20k, so in this case you want around 65k hp, since an instant heal should be able heal for 5k+
Since the frost dmg scales later, having more frost resist keeps in that zone, since losing armor may increase melee dmg to 16k, a single piece of frost gear could shave off 3k of frost dmg.
Hope that helps.
Post by
marklartank
one other thing to keep in mind is your expertise; she is one of the few bosses in ICC with parry haste.
as long as your threat is ok, consider just looking at her in phase 2.
Post by
141313
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
141313
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Raleandris
Now 25 man Hardmode is another story. We were seeing 30k and up to 40k melee swings at times. Average ended up being around 25k on melee swings. While Frost Breaths were still hitting for 30k, they come less frequently and are a much less concern than 30-40k melee swings coming every second or so. The 10k swings from 10-man are much easier to handle, so it's better to protect for the big-ticket Frost Breaths.
2.0 second swing timer for a 30 - 45k swing against a FR geared tank with full armor gear everywhere he can get it with 20 - 25k Frost breaths in P1.
Honestly, the FR gear is very worth it in 25man as well. Her Frost Breath hurts enough that the slightly more physical damage you take at the cost of the massive reduction you take in frost damage is worth it. It also led to a hilarious wipe in P2 when we tried to see how long we could keep the tank up without switching. Apparently 18 or so stacks of Buffet makes for big frost breaths.
A note: I'm not sure whether you were advocating FR gear for 25man Porcell, or were against it, but I would 100% recommend it.
Post by
Porcell
Now 25 man Hardmode is another story. We were seeing 30k and up to 40k melee swings at times. Average ended up being around 25k on melee swings. While Frost Breaths were still hitting for 30k, they come less frequently and are a much less concern than 30-40k melee swings coming every second or so. The 10k swings from 10-man are much easier to handle, so it's better to protect for the big-ticket Frost Breaths.
2.0 second swing timer for a 30 - 45k swing against a FR geared tank with full armor gear everywhere he can get it with 20 - 25k Frost breaths in P1.
Honestly, the FR gear is very worth it in 25man as well. Her Frost Breath hurts enough that the slightly more physical damage you take at the cost of the massive reduction you take in frost damage is worth it. It also led to a hilarious wipe in P2 when we tried to see how long we could keep the tank up without switching. Apparently 18 or so stacks of Buffet makes for big frost breaths.
A note: I'm not sure whether you were advocating FR gear for 25man Porcell, or were against it, but I would 100% recommend it.
Not sure if you skipped over the word "Hardmode" in my post. I'm guessing you did, since you are referencing 18 Buffets stacks. You can tank through 18 Buffet stacks in 10 reg or HM or 25 man regular, but there's no way you'd get close to that high in Hardmode 25.
For 25 man regular I certainly advocate Frost Resistance gear.
For 25 man Hardmode, you are much better off stacking armor and not wearing any Frost Resistance gear. We ran 15 more hardmode attempts last night. Our best attempt was a 5% wipe to the enrage timer. The DK was main tanking. His damage breakdown was:
Melee, 60.7% overall, 28.5k average hit
Frost Aura, 18.8% overall, 4900 average tick
Cleave, 8% overall, 24.5k average hit
P1 Frost Breaths (10), 4.5% overall, 16.5k average hit
P2 Frost Breaths (7), 4.5% overall, 23.7k average hit
(Note that his Frost Breath damage he was likely popping CDs on many of them. He shows 166k damage taken, 233k damage absorbed (AMS / Bubbles), and 140k Resist (from Frost Aura and possibly Sindragosa Trinket use)]
I only tanked in phase 2, here's my damage breakdown:
40% Melee, 34k average hit (24 hits, 835k damage)
35% Frost Aura, 4600 average hit
13% Chilled to the Bone, 2k average hit
6.5% Frost Breath, 46k average hit (3 hits, 140k damage)
In hardmode at least, you end up taking WAY more melee damage than frost breaths. Especially in phase 3, you will only get 1 frost breath per swap, compared to around 8 melee swings. Your frost debuff stack should be between 1 and 3 when the frost breath comes, so it won't be oneshotting you, and you can protect for it with your own CDs are external CDs if you are having a little trouble.
TLDR: 10 man, 10 man Hardmode, and 25 man you should use Frost Resistance since the melee damage is weaker and the only fear is the burst damage from Frost Breaths. For 25 man Hardmode you are better off with your full armor package since melee damage is such a huge threat and damage contributor.
Post by
Raleandris
No. I definitely meant hardmode. I think you skipped over the word "wipe" in my post ;)
We called the wipe, and the MT was just curious how many stacks of buffet he could live through on HM with full FR gear. We reached somewhere around 18 stacks before the two healers (myself and a disc priest) died to instability and then the tank died.
Here
is the WoL from our first Sindragosa 25H kill. Our MT actually took less melee damage in full FR gear than your tank in (presumably) full armor gear. Now maybe your MT had !@#$ty RNG on his side, but it still proves the point that wearing the FR gear does not increase your melee taken that drastically that it's not worth it to effectively ignore 25% of the damage you take in an encounter.
You also need to take into account that 3 of your healers are always going to be out of commission in P3 (They shouldn't be casting at all with UM). Reducing the burst you take in this encounter is much more important than taking a bit more (steady) melee damage, coming from my point of view. This is especially true when her melee swing timer lines up a fraction of a second after frost breath, we're looking at a 70k+ burst depending on cooldowns and your love from the RNG god.
I will advocate FR gear for this fight until we come back at 85 for t3h lulz.
Post by
536904
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.