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Is Gemming For Threat Wrong Now?
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Post by
WolfwoodSama
First off,
here's me
.
I took a short break from the game so I'm still working on replacing some older gear *cough*shield*cough* and I've been noticing a new issue. It seems in my time off peoples' DPS has just gotten nuts, and I find I'm having issue holding aggro. Of course, a misdirect and waiting 10 seconds before laying in is all I need to keep a bosses attention for the whole fight but we all know
that
never happens. I just can't seem to handle 8-9k DPS right out of the gate!
In heroics I've had to start tanking in half-ret gear just to keep up. It's great that I'm doing 4k single target DPS and all, but I don't feel like I'm "tanking". Also the /inspecting healers/DPS furiously stroking their epeens gets real old. Sorry I don't have 50k HP, good news is, YOU WONT DIE!
With the 20% buff to ICC is gemming straight stamina still 100% necessary? I'm 10 emblems away from my T10 shoulders which I imagine will help my threat out a lot, but is it wrong to gem Str/Stam or Hit/Stam? Am I the only one having issues with this? Input would be great.
Thanks!
Post by
Davidson
Unless your break was from Vanilla ---> WOTLK....nobody waits 10 seconds. You'll be lucky to get 0.5 seconds.
Don't gem for threat.
On Bosses, use Wing's at the start if you are having trouble and make sure you're doing your 96969 rotation.
In Heroics, get SoC and you'll be fine.
Post by
Raleandris
For random heroics, no, you'll probably never get a Misdirect unless you have a rogue or hunter with a fraction of a brain (not likely). In a 25man raid though, you had better be getting them if you're MT'ing the boss.
As rarely as I get to these days, our regular Paladin MT wanted to DPS Heroic Deathwhisper for souls for his Shadow's Edge (we are really light on 2h DPS, so lucky him). As soon as Deathwhisper was active, between 3 MD's and a Tricks, I got about 12 seconds of (averaged out) 25k TPS, putting me well ahead of anyone else during the time everyone uses their cooldowns for max burst DPS on the boss.
Basically, the point is, you really don't need to gem for threat. If you're in any sort of sensible guild, you'll get plenty of help from the hunters and rogues to make sure you've got a hold on the boss.
Post by
200565
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Elorivan
What are you leading off with when you hit the boss? If you're throwing down consecration, and then judging, I can see why you'd be having issues. I assume you aren't though - your stats/gear/spec all look fine, which tells me you're likely a competent player.
For heroics, don't worry about people pulling trash off you. If people are doing that much damage the mob is gonna die quickly anyway.
EH is still king for ICC.
If you're really worried about holding threat on a single target, pull with
AS
, then smack 'em with
ShoR
or
HotR
... or both if you're
really
worried about it. It'll mess up the 969 rotation a tad, but it'll put your threat ahead of everyone else enough that you won't have to worry about losing it, and you can get back to the rotation fairly quickly.
Without seeing you in action, it's hard to give you anything more specific.
Post by
WolfwoodSama
What are you leading off with when you hit the boss? If you're throwing down consecration, and then judging, I can see why you'd be having issues. I assume you aren't though - your stats/gear/spec all look fine, which tells me you're likely a competent player.
For heroics, don't worry about people pulling trash off you. If people are doing that much damage the mob is gonna die quickly anyway.
EH is still king for ICC.
If you're really worried about holding threat on a single target, pull with
AS
, then smack 'em with
ShoR
or
HotR
... or both if you're
really
worried about it. It'll mess up the 969 rotation a tad, but it'll put your threat ahead of everyone else enough that you won't have to worry about losing it, and you can get back to the rotation fairly quickly.
Without seeing you in action, it's hard to give you anything more specific.
I guess being a DPS/Tank in Heroics is fine, and I think the problem is with my mentality (and hunters...) when it comes to raids. I open with AS followed by HoR before the shield makes contact, wings, judge, shield, hammer, conc then stabilize into my 969. I don't lose aggro, but seeing blue and green and yellow bars creeping up to my own on Omen just makes me nervous, and feel like my threat gen isn't up to par. I guess it's a mentality I'll just have to adapt to.
Post by
Elorivan
(and hunters...)
I hear that. Been trying to level a bear tank using the LFD system... and now I hate hunters. If anything goes wrong, I immediately blame the hunter (even if it's the heals going oom - I can find a reason why it's the hunter's fault). But enough about huntards...
I use Omen, but I honestly don't watch it that closely. As long as everything is hitting
me
in the face, I don't really care how big of a lead I have on threat - if you have a lead and are 969-ing, you'll stay ahead.
Post by
228908
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Post by
136555
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Post by
341987
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Post by
Raleandris
For random heroics, no, you'll probably never get a Misdirect unless you have a rogue or hunter with a fraction of a brain (not likely)..
You'll get tricks from rogues almost constantly since with our tier bonus we get 15 energy back for using it instead of it costing 15 energy
You won't get it for the pull though, you'll get it sometime after, most likely, because most rogues only care about their dps, so they won't waste that 15 energy.
Post by
238461
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Post by
biogoo
For random heroics, no, you'll probably never get a Misdirect unless you have a rogue or hunter with a fraction of a brain (not likely)..
You'll get tricks from rogues almost constantly since with our tier bonus we get 15 energy back for using it instead of it costing 15 energy
You won't get it for the pull though, you'll get it sometime after, most likely, because most rogues only care about their dps, so they won't waste that 15 energy.
We had several pull-wipes on LK because we had a roque who decided his DPS is more important than anything else. That 15 energy in 15 minute fight was probably too good to pass.
Post by
Raleandris
Not true. Rogues very often tricks prior to a pull and have circa 20-30s prior to the tank starting to attack before the tricks "wears off", so that is plenty of time to replenish 15 energy. This is of course talking about rogues who have at least half a brain.
We're talking about rogues with the T10 2pc, which
gives
the rogue 15 energy instead of costing them. By using tricks at 100 energy (or indeed, above ~75 energy) you usually tend to end up wasting at least part of the energy gained, thus it's a DPS loss. Considering how many meter-minded DPS-droids there are out there, it's not really unthinkable that a rogue would save his tricks for in combat after he's burnt some energy for max DPS to flex his e-peen on the meters.
Post by
atomicwolf22
Hmm Are you using your R. Fury? That could be a big problem. Other then that I'm clueless to what your threat problems are, I have tanked for guildies in lesser gear that I have now, and they were pulling upwords of 10k in 5m Heroics and had no problems holding aggro.
Do as the others have said. Pop wings on boss fights for easy threat. I always pull muilt mobs with A.S. and single mobs with H.O.R. Someone said that in one of there post. But if your having problems with aggro and your doing the 969 then something is really wrong. We are one of the easier classes to build snap threat.
And tricks and MD are nice but sometimes aren't there so I don't count on that.
The only problem that I have when tanking is when I get a disc preist and they shield you so it kills your mana returns but thats the only problem that I have had. Other then the random Dk's that think using Dark Command is funny and then I let them go spalt.
Also the hunter hate isn't needed I lvled a hunter with no problems using the lfg system and never gave a single tank problems. Need to remember that if your lvling a bear and they have a bear pet to tell them to turn off Growl and turn on Cower. Thats something that somethings gets overlooked at times.
Post by
328121
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Post by
RyokoLam
Seems interesting information, I'm currently gaining tank gear from random HCs and emblems....next would be the skills involved with it eventually! So I was thinking, if you have gear which was chosen for avoidance/block, and you was under the hit/expertise cap.....would it be better to gem for those stats instead of maximising mitigation stats of all +Stamina gems?
Post by
atomicwolf22
If a DPS pulls aggro in the 6-8 seconds it takes for you to build a 5-stack, they are dumb and deserve to die.
-
I did this once in my ret gear with fury off and outpulled aggro over the pally tank I still remember the laughies in guild chat as I went spalt. All I was doing is spamming Ds every cd with my 2 peice teir 10 fun times. Never a good thing to have guilds with you when you do crazy or dumb things. Or when you get mad at the tank as all you can do is Judge/auto attack mobs and can add 1 Ds in a boss fight.
Redo your toon with there full tank gear on and repost when you do I what to see what your doing here. there is no reason why you should be having aggro issues in 5 mans you should be over 50k threat in the first sec. Unless your dps are being dumb and not attacking the mobs your attacking then its there problem.
Edit: @Ryoko Exp. should not be a problem for a pally tank you get 10 exp from a gylph and some from a talent. You can almost hit the 16 + 10 exp with just using the 245 shoulder from the vendor. If your low on hit it can help if your attacks are missing or need to stats.
Common gearing is Heroics is mostly avoidance and Higher end raids Stam. stacking as DR hurts.
Post by
238461
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44284
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