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Which class for cata?
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Post by
spaceghostlulz
So I have a warrior (which is my most geared toon) a paladin and a death knight. I really want to stick with one toon though. I just basically want to know what you guys would prefer with the upcoming changes and all. I really enjoy my warrior but, I hate that DK and pallies get favored by blizz all the time. I kno the warrior class really well I just hate that pallies and DK's overpower warrs most the time in pvp 1v1. What are your opinions.....
Post by
Adamsm
Whatever class you enjoy playing the most; it's your choice not ours.
Post by
spaceghostlulz
Yes I know but like I said I'm tired of my class geting nerfed over and over again basically neglected in, a way. If you look at pally and DK, or any other classes upcoming changes you can easily notice its a better change than a warriors. But all I'm asking for is opinions....
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Post by
Rankkor
Yes I know but like I said I'm tired of my class geting nerfed over and over again basically neglected in, a way. If you look at pally and DK, or any other classes upcoming changes you can easily notice
its a better change than a warriors
. But all I'm asking for is opinions....
uh-huh, because heroic leap (wich is basically a charge+AOE stun+AOE thunderclap) is such a horrible horrible weak-ass skill right?
and Gushing wounds, an Undispellable dot, that deals bleed damage capable of criting and being affected by haste to tick faster, and scales to more damage the more the target moves is also such an awefull skill.
the fact that your shouts will now be free of ragecosts and actually PROVIDE rage is also a terrible nerf.
before you start with the whole drama, learn to play the game and make complains when they actually have any base for it.
you're so focused on the new skills other classes got that u ignore what yours has.
DK's (my class wich I love) basically have no good skills for PVE (outbreak is a semi good one but not that impresive, necrotic strike is 100% pvp oriented, and Dark Simulacrum is strictly situational and useless against melee)
they got their runes nerfed as they will regen slower than today, basically while today 2 blood runes can recharge at the same time, on cata if you use 2 blood runes, the second one will not start recharging untill the first one is fully reloaded.
basically we will be using our skills 50% less than today.
lets not even get to the part of all our diseases spread from pestilence dealing 50% less damage, or Wandering plage having it's damage halved.
or how about losing blood DPS, frost tanking and unholy tanking?
and yet, do you see ME complaining? or any decent DK complaining?
no, because is too early to cry, we don't even know the basic numbers, beta hasn't even started, we have nothing solid to complain about all we know is that our class is changing.
big deal, boo-hoo, changes happen man, if this game remains 100% identical for 6 years, people get bored. Imagine that a great game is made, and then a sequel is made but the sequel included no real changes whatsoever.
in order to remain intresting, each expac must have heavy changes, and we as players must follow darwin's law: Adapt or die. if you just can't cope with the changes, play a more static non-online game that remains identical and frozen for ever and ever.
and before you say something about DK's, every single patch, every one nerfed heavily the DK's starting from 3.0.8 all the way to 3.3.2.
it wasn't untill 3.3.3 that DK's finnaly had some love.
Post by
Lateralus25
Dwarf Shaman! The Wildhammer clan needs Stormhammer Griffon Rider recruits in order to help reclaim Grim Batol :-)
However, in your case, I like Pallies the most, but Pallies and DKs are a dime a dozen. Warriors need more love, so stand by them if that's the class you've appreciated the most. Their day to reign will come again. :-)
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Post by
Hurono
Yes I know but like I said I'm tired of my class geting nerfed over and over again basically neglected in, a way. If you look at pally and DK, or any other classes upcoming changes you can easily notice
its a better change than a warriors
. But all I'm asking for is opinions....
uh-huh, because heroic leap (wich is basically a charge+AOE stun+AOE thunderclap) is such a horrible horrible weak-ass skill right?
We don't know if that will cost rage yet. If it does, GL finding a Warrior who uses it. Blizz also said it'd have a reasonable CD.
and Gushing wounds, an Undispellable dot, that deals bleed damage capable of criting and being affected by haste to tick faster, and scales to more damage the more the target moves is also such an awefull skill.
Stops stacking at 3 stacks, and a self respecting Warrior uses next to no haste as far as I know for any spec.
the fact that your shouts will now be free of ragecosts and actually PROVIDE rage is also a terrible nerf.
This seems good so far. Let's see how the CD goes.
Also, if I may mention, Warriors will have no choice in one of our passive skills. Seems a bit like a double-edged knife; 15% more damage for a few seconds at max rage, but attacks cost 50% MORE rage. You do know that MS will cost 45 rage at that point, right? And then you're left with 55 rage, which will be gone in the next hit or two. PvE, acceptable loss. PvP, this can be bad in a lot of cases.
Just sayin'.
Post by
Rankkor
Also, if I may mention, Warriors will have no choice in one of our passive skills. Seems a bit like a double-edged knife; 15% more damage for a few seconds at max rage, but attacks cost 50% MORE rage. You do know that MS will cost 45 rage at that point, right? And then you're left with 55 rage, which will be gone in the next hit or two. PvE, acceptable loss. PvP, this can be bad in a lot of cases.
in this segment you've provided good valid points, however it's clearly stated on the oficial forums that they haven't tweaked the numbers yet, for all we know the extra rage cost could end up being 20% rather than 50.
they haven't yet decided or set in stone any solid hard numbers, they merely showed us in wich direction they will move, and in this case the only clear sight about inner rage is "at 100 rage, I deal more damage, my skills cost more"
but how much more damage, and how much more cost hasn't been decided yet, so it's too early to say if that's a buff or a nerf.
I mean look at the DK segment, by making runes recharge slower, we will be using our skills 50% less time, that's like a permanent +50% extra cost to everything we use.
however to compensate, all DK skills will hit harder because we will use them less.
same aproach goes to the warriors, your skills cost more, thus you will use them less, but they hit for more, thus you dont NEED to use them more. let's wait untill some oficial numbers are given.
savvy?
Edit: about heroic leap, it's meant to be an opener (as you need to have it talented to use it in combat, otherwise this is like charge, in the sence that it can't be used during combat if you dn't have juggernaught), it would be stupid to have an opener costing rage, a resourse that can only be built during battle, that would be like making Chains of Ice cost Runic Power instead of a frost rune.
Edit: and about the "no warrior who respects himself will stack haste" you don't have a choise, fury warriors have as a second mastery 20% haste, wich will increase the tick speed of gushing wounds.
and even when gushing wounds stops stacking at 3 stacks, that still does way more damage than rend, and on cataclysm all dots (including bleeds) will be able to crit and be affected by haste naturally, no talents involved in that.
Edit: (yhea I know xD multiple edits :P) also about the warriors not using haste, remember this bro'
warriors don't use haste TODAY, that doesn't mean they won't in cataclysm, one of the many changes intended for all melee users is to make haste a more desirable stat, they have stated that they want haste to make you able to "do more stuff" wich easily means that for us melee users haste will increase the speed at wich we gain energy, focus, rage, runic power, runes getting off cooldown, and yhea, even rage will be affected by haste.
so stacking haste will be actually good in cataclysm.
as a final note (no more edits) don't compare the CURRENT situation of warriors to the situation of warriors on cataclysm, because all expantions revamp and retool all classes to the point they are almost unrecognizable, I mean compare the paladins from vainilla to the paladins of WOTLK and you have almsot 2 diferent classes altogheter.
Post by
spaceghostlulz
Well for the record I was never QQ I'm pretty sure up on top it says "opinions" warrior is the class I started with on this game and still till this day is my main...I have a pally and dk cuz I got bored. The things you said did give me new thoughts and were helpfull. Next time though instead of accusing me of QQ you should roll warrior and you will notice the difference between warr vs your beloved HERO CLASS DK. The things you mentioned about the DK changes do seem ugly for PVE in a way but, kinda OP in pvp which I do most. I mean you guys get an MS effect in cata that negates 30% more healing than ours. Heroic leap is pure garbage and seems more like a tanking ability to me. But thanks for the info it was really usefull.
Post by
Rankkor
I mean you guys get an MS effect in cata that negates 30% more healing than ours
not really, they haven't said how much healing will be negated, only that it will be a flat ammount, not percentual like Mortal Strike.
so while mortal strike negates a % of multiple incoming heals, Necrotic Strike negates a flat ammount that probably won't be very high.
let's supose it negates 4000 healing, so a healing that normally would heal you for 20k will instead heal for 16k, that's it.
Mortal strike actually places a debuff on the enemy, reducing ALL heals by 20% rather than reducing a flat ammount.
bottom line: Mortal Strike >>>>>> Necrotic Strike.
at least for now, because they haven't said exactly HOW much healing is negated, or if it's a static ammount or if it's based on your AP or anything.
for example, Blood Strike deals 40% weapon damage + 400, and that "+400" will not change, is static, no matter how much AP you have, it will remain 400.
on Necrotic Strike, the Healing negated will be a flat ammount, but we don't know if:
it's a static non-scaleable ammount.
if it scales with AP or another stat.
if it stacks with multiple necrotic strikes or if a second necrotic strike overwrites the first one.
or even if it's a big ammount
so, untill those very important details are revealed, you can't say that necrotic strike will be better than mortal strike.
also I apologize if my tone offended you, that was not my intention =) I mean it, is just a bit frustrating that people complain when so little has been revealed, if anything it should be me complaining about so many of the horrible changes on the horizon for DK's, because due to the new rune cooldown, missing a strike, or having a strike dodged/parried/blocked, will harm our damage TWICE as much as it does today.
and yet, i'm not complaining, at least not for now, I'll wait till I've seen the actual numbers, till I've ran those numbers on my toon, on the live realms, and then and only then, if I'm still unpleased, I'll complain.
but complaining when we know just about nothing seems kinda........... silly?
roll warrior and you will notice the difference between warr vs your beloved HERO CLASS DK
I have noticed the diference, wanna know what it is? mine starts at 55, with an epic starting zone, and a cool starting set of armor.
that's about it, at lvl 80 there is no diference between a DK or a Warrior, and if you take a good look at the patch notes, DK's were hit with the nerf bat 7 times in a row on all of WOTLK. That is the price of having a heroic class.
again, I apologize if my tone offended you, as that was NOT my intention, my intention was to relay the message: is too early to complain, wait a bit more pl0x.
Heroic leap is pure garbage and seems more like a tanking ability to me
u're not looking at the big picture here, imagine this: AOE stun, Charge, Thunderclap.
u know how much I'd kill to have those when facing those GOD-DAMNED HUNTERS and their frikking wing-clip+disengage combo?
Post by
375923
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Post by
spaceghostlulz
well yes for pvp it might seem some what nice but most warriors dont want it. I said it seems like a tanking ability because, if your a dps warrior in a raid or whatever and u start off with that you will pull alot of aggro and i bet the tank wont bother pulling off of you ( i know i wouldn't.) If it didnt share a CD with charge and had a longer CD by itself that would seem better to me. Honestly to me, there is a diff warr vs DK most duels DK ends up wining; could be becuase most warriors dont know how to play the class but even the good warrs will tell you evenly geared and everything DK's do win most of the time. Im gunna stick it out with my warrior becuase your right "play the class that you enjoy" and the warrior is my favorite class. It gives me a better feeling when I win against a pally or DK, rather than a DK or pally wining against a warr because its a more strategic and skill based battle on the warriors side. Where you have a pally only pushing 4 buttons, kinda boring if you ask me. Thank you all for the input really helped alot.
When Cata comes out I will check the numbers aswell and see how we'll prosper and what to use and what not to use.
Post by
Rankkor
Lol you cant use that on us in cataclysm on first attack we have Camoflauge now xD
you do realize that camouflage lasts only 8 secs and is off the moment you fire a single arrow/bullet?
yhea. (since it can't be used in combat, dont' even think about recamouflaging yourself either)
well yes for pvp it might seem some what nice but most warriors dont want it.
tell that to the thousands of warriors in WOTLK-beta who nerdraged to the heavens when they removed it, because heroic leap was meant to be used in this expantion (in fact 2 NPC's kept the skill, Overthane Balagarde, and Varian the human king)
I said it seems like a tanking ability because, if your a dps warrior in a raid or whatever and u start off with that you will pull alot of aggro and i bet the tank wont bother pulling off of you
first of all, there's nothing to indicate that this generates extra aggro, is not like Heroic Strike wich indeed generates extra threat and still is a usefull skill for DPS, if you wait for the tank to use an AOE move on the trash packs (shockwave/swipe/consecrate/Death&Decay) then you can safely use Heroic Leap without fear of pulling aggro, plus there's the fact that unlike charge, Heroic Leap DOES DAMAGE.
so this is like 4 skills in 1, it's a whirlwind+AOE stun+Charge+Thunderclap.
think of it like the divine storm of the paladins, but with a larger Cooldown, affecting more than 4 targets, stunning everyone, making you jump to the target, and aplicating the debuff of thunderclap.
seriously man, I can't think of a better melee opener than that thing.
remember that Death & Decay does generates a lot of aggro (says so on the tooltip) and yet, all DPS DK's use it on trash, why? because if you wait for the tank to pull, you can do your AOE's without fear of getting aggroed yourself.
and then there's this: are you displeased with heroic leap because it's a skill more aimed at pvp?
didn't you said that you do more PVP than PVE?
you said so right here:
The things you mentioned about the DK changes do seem ugly for PVE in a way but, kinda OP in pvp which I do most
so while its true that heroic leap will have a very limited use on raids, it will have a fantastic aplication on pvp if you know how to use it right, and you said that you do more PVP after all.
Post by
spaceghostlulz
Correct I do pvp more, which I did say "it might be good for pvp." I was saying it could pull aggro because thunderclap in fact generates aggro of coarse the tank can pull it back with a shockwave or avengers shield or w.e. idk Im personally not super excited for heroic leap I mean it is a good idea and all, pvp-wise I would love to mess around with it and see the pro's and con's. I also want 2 see how it plays out pve-wise with the aggro thing. Just because I tank for pve and play arms for pvp. Gushing wound is my current fav new ability.
Post by
Rankkor
I was saying it could pull aggro because thunderclap in fact generates aggro
yhea but thunderclap actually says on the tooltip that it generates a lot of aggro, no such thing has been hinted for heroic leap, for all we know, this could be a new AOE move like whirlwind. Also, do note that the description of Heroic Leap says "it applies the debuff of thunderclap" not "it does a thunderclap", that means you can have the benefic debuff of thuderclap, wihtout the extra aggro of that skill.
Do warriors refuse to use whirlwind or bladestorm in PVE out of fear of pulling aggro? nope.
I also want 2 see how it plays out pve-wise with the aggro thing
relax bro' I'm 100% sure it won't be a problem.
again look at the DK spell Death & Decay, the tooltip actually says it generates A LOT of aggro, and yet, DPS DK's can use it with impunity wihtout fear of pulling (that is if you wait for the tank to build aggro, wait 5 secs after the pull to trow it)
if Dk's can use that spell wich normally generates aggro, I'm sure warriors can also use Heroic Leap without fear of pulling aggro too. just wait for the tank for a few secs and open fire, if using AOE moves was dangerous, then nobody would use them.
Im personally not super excited for heroic leap
I'm pretty sure U're gonna change your mind when you actually see it on action, I saw that thing back on WOTLK beta and it was GODLY.
seriously, this is like Divine Fury x 10. Add up jump to the target+Whirlwind+AOE stun+Thunderclap. How can that be a bad move? even with a Cooldown it's bestial.
so godly in fact that they removed it because it was too OP :P
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