This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Live
PTR
10.2.7
PTR
10.2.6
Beta
Disrespect ret pallies? You betcha.
Return to board index
Post by
64568
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
102166
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Lightrain
Yes, prance around the points brought up and conceded to. This is the issue we have here. If, after all this you still don't understand what we are saying, you are obviously one of those people that I hate so much in AV.... Possibly even one of those "I am God" pali's OP is talking about.
"What I don't understand, is why Ret Spec is getting so much crap but
DW/Fury warriors are not. I belive those guys to be the most useless
of any spec, right next to shadow priest for heroics/raids."
Your post. So we tell you the utility of a shadow priest. You counter with a linch pin theory. There is NO dps class that will make or break a raid, as I said.
"You can neglecting ANY dps class. Yes, gratz on pointing out the obvious Ultra. Shadow priest being one of the MORE useful of the whole lot, increasing the longevity of the raid."
Followed up by hard facts and one that I wasn't sure of because I haven't rolled a sham.
"Lets check this out.... 5% return of mana on shadow dps. We'll pick a low number, 1000dps. That's 250 mp5 ADDED. 15% health return. That's 150 health per second to multiple targets simultaneously. You get a good dps rate out of that shadow priest, and your getting up to 400 mp5 there. I don't see ANYONE laughing at that number, especially when you add it to your healer's regen banks. Do you know what the mana spring or seals do? I don't claim to know a sham, so please, correct me if I'm wrong. I don't know if mana spring changes based on stats(I'm guessing not), or if it is a set rate, but 20 mp2 is 50 mp5. Seal of Wisdom returns a CHANCE of 74 mana per stike, and Seal of Light returns a CHANCE of 95 health per strike. The only beneficiaries to this would be a rogue, enh sham, or your beloved fury warrior. So usefull. Kinda like a raid buff to that shadow priest's work."
If that priest is rolling MAX dps, he may go oom fast(5-10 mins depending on his gear and set up), yes. If he is rolling for mana purposes, he will probably still be pulling 1200+ dps. Probably more in T6 for top raids. This being done as a mana battery, he will NOT go oom for a very long time, and stull push out good numbers. Priests are very mana intensive. Shadow is not AS mana intensive as holy, and will last longer. I did mention the OOM problem to get that out in the open. Thank you Ultra, yet again. EVERY mana based class will OOM. How long will that take? I prefer utility over the stated classes, for these reasons. You said "MOST USELESS next to fury war."
Correct yourself please.
This is this whole debate. We aren't talking make or break a raid. Yes, you can't raid without a MT and healer. Again, you can't raid with just tank and heals. Find me a class that will make or break ANY raid! Are you getting the point(s)?
My caps aren't YELLING. They are pointing out key inclusions you are missing in your thinking. I'ma send you back to that nun in catholic school with the damn ruler. (no I didn't say I went to catholic school .) LOL
P.S.- When I say something stupid to prove a point, I tell you. "Yes, I'm being sarcastic, and a smart ass, and this is my last post in this string." Hopefully this is my last post. I don't think I can say anything else on this subject. It has all been said, and most of it ignored.
Post by
zoomie
If I may bring a fresh POV to this thread I think people are getting mad with ultramarine (btw nice name. 40k for life) because they are misunderstanding his point.
He is essentially right when he says raiding can be done with a simple make up of tanks, healers and basic dps. Granted it would be slow progressing, due to the lack of gear for all of the people of the same classes and specs dropping frequently enough for everyone to get geared, and certain fights would be a pain in the but. Though it certainly can be done.
I can surf the web with a computer from 1999.
I can play paintball with a pump action marker.
I can survive by digging up and eating grubs.
I can raid with a very basic make up with no fun buffing or utility classes/specs.
All of these are true though none of them are really ideal situations. Though I don't ever think that ultramarine ever intended to say that it was an ideal situation.
Just like any class or spec it comes down to what works best for you and your group. There are good ret pallies and they do wonders for their group. There are bad ret pallies that give ret pallies a bad name. There are a lot of ret pallies so it stands to reason a good number of them aren't on the top of their game. Though that can be said about any class with lots of people playing it.
@OP I don't think people hate ret pallies, they just rather work with more tried and true combinations. I <3 a good ret pally just like I <3 any good toon I meet.
The situation he describes seems to be like the very first easiest boss to kill in Kara. Basic tank heal dps fight. Beyond that though the fights have different make ups that prefer certain classes. Even moroes favors a priest or two over a full raid of pallys druids or shammys, for shackle. On maiden it is nice to have a paladin for blessing of sacrifice so healers don't get stuck in rempentance. On Oz (only one my group EVER gets) its nice to have a class with fire damage to CC strawman, and a class with fear to CC roar, etc. It just keeps going and going all the way into SSC and TK and into MH and BT up to Archimonde and Illidan. Don't be so quick to say that all you need is tank heals and dps.
Your post, pointing out to being a marine, makes us natural enemies. Yes I am a zoomie, a 6 year SSgt. Not some stupid punk kid that just got in to get out of his parents basement. And quite honestly I don't care what a 1302 marine is because everyone knows Airman are smarter than Marines anyway.
By the way how long did it take you to get to revered with violet eye by grinding attumen?
Post by
102166
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
106384
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Lightrain
LOL, actually, ret spec pali's do MORE damage then wars in pvp. They are also very burst specific, however. The main goal of a ret pali is to burst damage a toon to death, but this is the same as a MS war. Same longevity, same burst damage slow weapon. The bonus of a ret pali is they do 30% more damage with vengence on, they can free themselves from movement impairing effects, cleanse dots, bubble/heal, and run down mounted toons on foot.
Retri pali isn't really a leveling spec. Prot is the leveling spec for palis. With 5 toons aggro'd on you as prot, you can not only survive, you can kill all of them, and do it quickly spec'd right. Dealing double damage per hit untill they are ground down to 1 left (on top of holy shield dps and aoe DoT).
PVP ret pali's are one of the main attractions in 5v5 as far as pali's go. I would hate to be the group up against 4 ret pali's and a resto druid.....
End game grinding mats and quests, yes, I would agree that would prefer ret palis. I hate grinding as holy.
Try searching youtube for "s3 ret pvp" and see what the burst damage is like. Yes, they are showing you burst damage, and don't normally do that much damage consistantly, but it is definitely something to consider. If you pay attention, you also see damage against plate toons, and some really cool tricks that palis have that make them very dangerous in BGs and arena. Let's see a pole dancing resto druid run from a ret pali! =)
Post by
GoGoGodzilla
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
26649
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Angrydorf
I've played for 3 years, since beta, and have hit 70 5 times, (Warrior, mage, priest, rogue, pally) and Ret is probably my favorite spec out of any without comparison. When you know your character inside out and have season 3 gear, we are a force to be reckoned with.
I think there are a lot of terrible Ret Pallies, but a good one can do a hell of a lot.
Post by
127003
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
127003
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
106896
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
137777
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
127003
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
124849
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
106896
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
116187
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
127003
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
PureGold
Okay I've got one thing to say. I'm a ret paladin. I LOVE being one. I wreck face in pvp with my multiple stuns then my over 1k damage per hit...oh and I'm only 55.
OH! I have a comment on why no one likes ret...they want two things healer and tank..if you aren't either screw you.
I bump into that WAY too much...then I join a group where there are two rogues and all I do is swear as they fail their saps.
Post Reply
This topic is locked. You cannot post a reply.