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Post by
MyTie
a large amount of people not considering it rape.
Who are these people? Can your source this please, as a percentage of the population?
Post by
Patty
a large amount of people not considering it rape.
Who are these people? Can your source this please, as a percentage of the population?
Go to any club's mens' toilets. It'll likely be discussed there.
And instead of wasting my time explaining anything, I'll link
this
which kinda does it for me. Especially point #3: the idea that women should actively avoid being raped, rather than just teach people not to go out raping people.
Post by
Adamsm
Things Not to Say to a Rape Victim
; now we all know that you MyTie are a evolved male(this is not satire or an insult, I mean this completely), and would never dream of saying things that are listed there...but not all people are like you.
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
Rape culture at its finest.
I'm not the only one who wants to bash that f-er's right?
Two of them are women...
For shame CNN, now kindly &*!@ off.
Seriously, that is utter bull^&*!.
Post by
Nathanyal
About the only good article on what happened.
It talks about how it's not
entirely
the guys fault, but the community's fault. About how the parents and adults let this go on. How all those that testified didn't know what rape was.
Post by
Adamsm
It talks about how it's not
entirely
the guys fault, but the community's fault. About how the parents and adults let this go on. How all those that testified didn't know what rape was.
..../sigh Should have just put the pair of them away till they were 21. I mean, I know the other one is getting extra time, which thankfully will not be running congruently, for the naked pictures, but really, they should have gotten a lot worse for what they did. Don't care who they were, don't care how 'sheltered', or whatever you want to call it, but that is still a crap ruling.
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
a large amount of people not considering it rape.
Who are these people? Can your source this please, as a percentage of the population?Well, I already cited my anecdotal evidence in that less than more than half of my Basic Training cycle (effectively a random sampling, since location and demographics don't factor into which post or unit you're sent to) didn't believe it to be rape.
Edit: OH, and I've been playing Beyond Good and Evil (hadn't played it a minute, prior to today), and Jade is a
fantastic
protagonist.
Post by
MyTie
a large amount of people not considering it rape.
Who are these people? Can your source this please, as a percentage of the population?Well, I already cited my anecdotal evidence in that less than more than half of my Basic Training cycle (effectively a random sampling, since location and demographics don't factor into which post or unit you're sent to) didn't believe it to be rape.
Edit: OH, and I've been playing Beyond Good and Evil (hadn't played it a minute, prior to today), and Jade is a
fantastic
protagonist.
I don't get it. What am I arguing against, exactly? The boys you heard talking by a toilet? Some idiot on CNN?
How is this rape
culture
? Our culture does not promote rape. I still don't see it. You all want to say there is rape culture, then explain how the culture promotes rape, and provide evidence. Some news anchor, or toilet crowd, simply aren't evidence for a CULTURE of RAPE.
Post by
Skreeran
I don't get it. What am I arguing against, exactly? The boys you heard talking by a toilet? Some idiot on CNN?
How is this rape
culture
? Our culture does not promote rape. I still don't see it. You all want to say there is rape culture, then explain how the culture promotes rape, and provide evidence. Some news anchor, or toilet crowd, simply aren't evidence for a CULTURE of RAPE.Saying rape culture doesn't imply that our culture revolves around rape, or even that our society as a whole supports rape.
A: There exists a culture in which young men (and to a lesser extent, women, I suppose) do not believe that having sex with women (or men) too intoxicated to say no is not rape and are actively praised by their peers for doing so.
B: As evidenced by the half-dozen links up the page that you didn't respond to, our media doesn't seem to treat the victims in these cases as actual victims, instead focusing on how back the those who perpetrated the act are getting it.
Post by
asakawa
It's a fair use of the word
culture
I think and one we most often see in the phrase "drug culture". As in "there was a powerful drug culture in some 1960s universities".
It isn't saying that society as a whole condones something. This use actually suggests something that larger society would deem deviant, though I think there's probably something to be said for society as a whole turning a blind eye to things like "Rape culture" and missing the opportunity to shine a big light and expose it. This is simply saying that there's a sub-culture within a group that reinforces certain behaviours and encourages them.
Post by
Patty
Also note how in criminal cases, there's always a degree of victim blaming. "And what were
you
wearing on the night in question?" - asked to every sexual assault victim I have ever known who reported to the police, and even in court;probably all of them that you know as well. You wouldn't imagine an attempted murder victim of a psychopath who loved slitting throats being asked if they were walking around with their jugular so tantalisingly exposed. WHY THE %^&* DOES IT MATTER WHAT SOMEBODY IS WEARING? Rape is
never
justified, regardless of what the victim wears. If a woman walks the streets in nothing but a bit of strategically placed tape or something (which may or may not be legal),
she has the right to not be raped
. Arguing that what the victim looked like was the victim's fault in getting raped not only is gross injustice towards the victim, but also doing a disservice to men as a whole.* It also discourages victims from reporting their sexual assaults, due to fear of disbelief (first and foremost, I think that was mentioned in one of the links above) and fear of blame.
*Of course, the inverse is true and there is absolutely no detracting from that. However, the majority of rapes are nevertheless performed by men against women.
Post by
Skreeran
You know, that guy in that link Elura posted got me thinking.
That guy, the one that was saying that it's all
her
fault for what she was wearing, how much she drank, and so on... How would he feel if he went to a party got drunk, and then some
men
had sex with him while he was passed out? I think he would be inclined to say that he couldn't and didn't consent.
Post by
MyTie
"And what were
you
wearing on the night in question?" - asked to every sexual assault victim I have ever known who reported to the police, and even in court;probably all of them that you know as well. You wouldn't imagine an attempted murder victim of a psychopath who loved slitting throats being asked if they were walking around with their jugular so tantalisingly exposed. WHY THE %^&* DOES IT MATTER WHAT SOMEBODY IS WEARING? Rape is
never
justified, regardless of what the victim wears.
I get this. I agree with this. Rape is never justified. However, a woman is more likely to get raped if she is wearing something that screams "look at my breasts and butt", and she walks around traditionally unsafe locations like that. That doesn't make the rape her fault in the least, but she is at fault for dressing inappropriately. I have a daughter, and I'm not going to let her dress like a tramp, and then make sure all the blame goes to the people that rape her. I'm going to do everything in my power to ensure that doesn't happen in the first place. Fault can never be leveled on the victim in the case of rape, but lack of prevention can.
Going to a party with a bunch of teenage boys, no supervision, dressing like a prostitute, and getting really drunk.... it isn't your fault you get raped. Nope. But it is your fault you were vulnerable.
Post by
Gone
I get this. I agree with this. Rape is never justified. However, a woman is more likely to get raped if she is wearing something that screams "look at my breasts and butt", and she walks around traditionally unsafe locations like that. That doesn't make the rape her fault in the least,
but she is at fault for dressing inappropriately
. I have a daughter, and I'm not going to let her dress like a tramp, and then make sure all the blame goes to the people that rape her. I'm going to do everything in my power to ensure that doesn't happen in the first place. Fault can never be leveled on the victim in the case of rape, but lack of prevention can.
I completely disagree with this. If a woman dresses provocatively and gets raped, 100% of the blame is on her rapist. There is nothing to blame for her dressing that way. It might be poor judgement to walk down a dark alley dressed like that, but then her only crime is being naive.
I get what you're trying to say, and it's something that everybody thinks at some point, but it's not something that should ever be said, because as soon as you start to go down that road, it takes responsibility away from the rapist.
Women have the right to dress however they wan't, they shouldn't have to worry about being raped because people can't control themselves.
But it is your fault you were vulnerable.
So if a person walks down the street and gets shot, they are in some way to blame because they didn't have a bullet proof vest?
Post by
MyTie
That doesn't make the rape her fault in the least
I completely disagree with this. If a woman dresses provocatively and gets raped, 100% of the blame is on her rapist.
I think you might have misread what you were quoting.So if a person walks down the street and gets shot, they are in some way to blame because they didn't have a bullet proof vest?
If someone gets shot, it is the fault of the shooter. But, it would be very silly to walk into a war zone, wearing nothing but a jock strap and a hot pink t shirt screaming and waving your arms around. If someone did that, I would wonder WHY they did what they did, but I wouldn't rest blame for the shooting on them, because they didn't shoot the gun. Similarly, that girl who wears trashy clothes, goes to an unsupervised party full of young men, and proceeds to get drunk, is acting a way that is very silly. Not her fault she got raped, but her fault for being in a compromising situation.
Post by
Gone
That doesn't make the rape her fault in the least
I completely disagree with this. If a woman dresses provocatively and gets raped, 100% of the blame is on her rapist.
I think you might have misread what you were quoting.
I get what you're saying, but what I'm saying is that nothing is her fault. It's not a crime to dress provocatively, and you seemed to be saying there was something wrong with it. Basically the impression I got was "the rape isn't her fault. but there is ownness of the incident on her because she didn't think of the consequences of the way she dressed". And tbh your post sounded a bit judgmental. Saying if a girl dresses like a "tramp" or "prostitute".
Post by
Patty
That doesn't make the rape her fault in the least, but she is at fault for dressing inappropriately. I have a daughter, and I'm not going to let her dress like a tramp, and then make sure all the blame goes to the people that rape her. I'm going to do everything in my power to ensure that doesn't happen in the first place. Fault can never be leveled on the victim in the case of rape, but lack of prevention can.
"Dressing inappropriately" is, pardon my French, bull!@#$ really - it just reeks of #$%^-shaming.
Also, why should it be the responsibility of the victim to actively avoid a situation as horrifying as something like rape, and not the responsibility of perpetrators to, you know,
not perpetrate at all
.
Post by
b4xx
If someone gets shot, it is the fault of the shooter. But, it would be very silly to walk into a war zone, wearing nothing but a jock strap and a hot pink t shirt screaming and waving your arms around. If someone did that, I would wonder WHY they did what they did, but I wouldn't rest blame for the shooting on them, because they didn't shoot the gun. Similarly, that girl who wears trashy clothes, goes to an unsupervised party full of young men, and proceeds to get drunk, is acting a way that is very silly. Not her fault she got raped, but her fault for being in a compromising situation.
This.
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