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Post by
Squishalot
On the topic of the Tunisian protest and its level of appropriateness or lack thereof, there's an interesting article in SMH's Daily Life column (written by female writers and self-proclaimed as being proudly feminist and pro-female / female biased).
http://www.dailylife.com.au/news-and-views/dl-opinion/why-protests-must-be-culturally-appropriate-20130327-2gu2d.html
(somewhat NSFW)
Just food for thought.(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##Squishalot##DELIM##
Post by
Skreeran
Huh, interesting, I wasn't aware of any of that.
Might, uh, slap a NSFW label on that link too, because I opened that while my family was around. Haven't been able to read the article because I'm waiting for the little ones to get out of the room.
But on-topic, without reading it yet, I feel kinda skeptical of the helpfulness of that sort of protest. Yeah, it's sure to get a lot of people really mad at you, but I think that sort of thing is only going to hurt your cause. Rational people who share your opinions but aren't so radically minded aren't going to want to be associated you.
It's not like society only makes women wear clothes. Even the way-too-modest apparel of fundamentalist Islam. It just looks like attention seeking behavior that only damages the argument.
Edit: After reading it, I must say I agree with the author. It seems our view of it line up pretty closely. I was reading the comments and someone opined that the best way to effect change is to shock people out of complacency. I disagree. I think shocking people and upsetting the balance is
one
way to bring about change, but it almost always results in intense conflict, physical or otherwise. Maybe it's just because I'm not heavily oppressed and thus more patient with slow change, but I think gradual wedging of new ideas into society is generally the better strategy.
And of course, in reality, it's usually both together that end in change.
Post by
MikadoGG
I don't see how nudity damages the argument. Personally, I wouldn't go that route, I'm a bit more conservative in my life than to go publicly naked. However, I think the nudity and the overdramatic reactions to it serve to highlight just how @#$%ed up some people are about the naked body of a woman. If I see a naked woman in public I think she may have mental issues, or is not very well behaved as a person, however, I do not say "Off with her head because she showed her body." That, imo, is a reaction of a brainwashed lunatic, and that is exactly what this type of thing shows. We can be offended all we want, but we do not threaten another person's life when they have done nothing to harm anyone physically. It sounds a bit more like muslim apologetics to me.
However, I have to say that in FEMEN's native Ukraine which isn't even muslim, but orthodox christian, there is much outrage and yes, death threats too. So to say that this type of violent lunacy is exclusive to islam would be unfair.
Post by
Squishalot
Might, uh, slap a NSFW label on that link too
Sorry about that - I opened it at work, and though it's a little awkward, it's on a mainstream Australian news website, so I thought it'd be considered OK.
If I see a naked woman in public I think she may have mental issues, or is not very well behaved as a person
I think that was the point I was trying to address, regarding an issue that was brought up a few days ago when Magician suggested that locking up the Tunisian woman into a mental health hospital was probably a good thing because she must be crazy to have done that. A couple of others on the forum took offense at the idea and brought up a discussion of appropriate / 'suicidal' actions to take in protest.
By the way, welcome to Off-Topic.(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##Squishalot##DELIM##
Post by
MikadoGG
Might, uh, slap a NSFW label on that link too
Sorry about that - I opened it at work, and though it's a little awkward, it's on a mainstream Australian news website, so I thought it'd be considered OK.
If I see a naked woman in public I think she may have mental issues, or is not very well behaved as a person
I think that was the point I was trying to address, regarding an issue that was brought up a few days ago when Magician suggested that locking up the Tunisian woman into a mental health hospital was probably a good thing because she must be crazy to have done that. A couple of others on the forum took offense at the idea and brought up a discussion of appropriate / 'suicidal' actions to take in protest.
By the way, welcome to Off-Topic.
Thank you.
But my point is, it has to be taken in context. If I know the woman is naked as a protest and has an agenda she's trying to achieve (whether I agree or not), I'm probably not going to think she's crazy, since she has a goal that she is trying to achieve with her nudity in this context. If she's chanting slogans, has signs in her hands, written on her body, this becomes pretty obvious. If a woman is randomly walking around nude in public, drunk or otherwise, I'm likely to come to the other conclusions (although to be fair, we don't know why she is naked, she could've been stripped and assaulted, she MAY be a genuine sufferer of mental illness, an attention seeker etc). But putting up a topless picture of yourself on the internet isn't exactly the same as walking around naked in public, especially when it is posted on a feminist website and not a children's comic strip page. I doubt she would live through a naked walk around a Tunisian city, which brings me back to my original point.
Also, it makes sense that nudity is being chosen as a method in this context because their protests mostly relate to feminism and women's lib (including physical and sexual liberation). Amina's writing on her naked body also amounts to something like "My body is my own" if I remember correctly. However, when they protest for gay right or against the catholic pope (and pedophilia and bigotry) naked it makes a lot less sense to me because the context has little to do with feminism.
Post by
Magician22773
I wonder if the 3 naked women in the photo were more representative of the average female body type, if the statement would be quite the same?
Among the many other reasons I disagree with this type of activism, I also find it ironic that the women in the picture are more 'qualified' to represent Victoria's Secret, than the average female.
If one of your points of activism is to stop the sexual exploitation of women, having 3 women with model bodies standing nude is perhaps not the most effective way to make that point.
Post by
Skreeran
I was looking into DC's New 52 (because I'm looking forward to Injustice...) and I read that there were a lot of complaints about oversexualization of female characters.
Here's
an article in particular that hits all the main points.
Post by
Adamsm
And yet another intelligent thing admins tell children...
Post by
Patty
And yet another intelligent thing admins tell children...
Thank !@#$ for that article. Seriously though, I just want to run the world so I can do everything right (I'm sure that's what most megalomaniac rulers said in the past, but hey - you win some, you lose some).
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Relevent
Post by
Sagramor
And yet another intelligent thing admins tell children...
This has nothing to do with feminism, I barely know what this thread is about, but I felt it needed to be said:
That site is as biased as @#$%. That's barely journalism; it's spewing opinions. Worse, it's almost kind of like a blog. Too sensationalist, they don't tell a story, they tell a point.
It clearly has a pre-determined set of values, obviously necessarily shared by anyone who writes for the site.
I would not use it as a direct source of information for any point I was trying to make.
Post by
Patty
Relevent
I really liked that article, actually, and the highlighting that rape culture
is
rampant even at young ages.
And yet another intelligent thing admins tell children...
This has nothing to do with feminism, I barely know what this thread is about, but I felt it needed to be said:
That site is as biased as @#$%. That's barely journalism; it's spewing opinions. Worse, it's almost kind of like a blog. Too sensationalist, they don't tell a story, they tell a point.
It clearly has a pre-determined set of values, obviously necessarily shared by anyone who writes for the site.
I would not use it as a direct source of information for any point I was trying to make.
It's explaining how rape culture is propagated by those small acts. I don't get the problem? It's not written particularly academically, I agree, but come on.
I mean, additionally, I don't necessarily think you can quite gauge determine whether something does or doesn't fit your definition of what feminism is. In the above quote, you point out that you don't really know what it's about.
Also,
here
is the original article. I agree with the last quote: "Boys need to be taught to respect women no matter what they're wearing, and that's a big deal." That's a huge factor in rape culture.
Post by
Magician22773
So, recognizing that a type of dress is perhaps not acceptable because it may, shall we say, 'highlight' parts of a womans body that are considered sexually attractive, especially to hormone filled teenage boys, and asking them to not wear that type of clothing is "promoting rape culture"?
How about not wearing yoga pants unless you are in a yoga class?
I mean, would
this
be appropriate dress for the boys to walk around school all day?
Post by
MyTie
And yet another intelligent thing admins tell children...
Rape culture?
Ok, I have a serious question. Can a teenage boy be distracted by a teenage girl in skin tight pants?
Just a question.
Post by
Adamsm
And yet another intelligent thing admins tell children...
Rape culture?
Ok, I have a serious question. Can a teenage boy be distracted by a teenage girl in skin tight pants?
Just a question.
Of course, and just like females can be distracted by males in tight clothing...but you don't see the school taking the males aside and telling them not to wear tight shirts and the like do you?
Post by
MyTie
Of course, and just like females can be distracted by males in tight clothing...but you don't see the school taking the males aside and telling them not to wear tight shirts and the like do you?
Do the males wear a lot of tight shirts? They probably don't do that because it isn't an issue. The problem, it seems, might be the sexualizing of young girls. Here he is, telling them to dress more modestly, and that is promoting a culture where they will be forced to have sex against their will? Further, you agree that what he said was actually true? Am I the only one here who is having trouble understanding this? Rape culture? Seriously?
I mean, here is what the article says:This is how you teach rape culture to 12-year-olds. And if you’re teaching it, don’t be surprised when, one day in the near or distant future, one of them commits an act of sexual violence. We sure as hell won’t be.This has to be satire. No one can be this... I don't know what. This is news. This not only is an issue at all, but it is news worthy, to someone. I feel like the whole world is going crazy.
Post by
Frostshamadin
I came across this video. The actual blogger is an obnoxious #$%^&*!, but watch the clips of the way these women are conducting themselves and tell me feminism isn't complete bull*!@#, at least if judged by the actions of those involved here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2KPeMcYsuc
Post by
Skreeran
I came across this video. The actual blogger is an obnoxious #$%^&*!, but watch the clips of the way these women are conducting themselves and tell me feminism isn't complete bull*!@#, at least if judged by the actions of those involved here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2KPeMcYsuc
Right, and Conservatism is complete bull%$#@ because Timothy McVeigh was conservative. And Christianity is complete bull^%$# because of Westboro Baptist Church. And Capitalism is complete bull%$#@ because of Bank of America's bait and switch lending.
News flash: You can't equate negative actions by followers of a philosophy with the philosophy itself.
Post by
Patty
I came across this video. The actual blogger is an obnoxious #$%^&*!, but watch the clips of the way these women are conducting themselves and tell me feminism isn't complete bull*!@#, at least if judged by the actions of those involved here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2KPeMcYsuc
I'm sorry, but before I even watch the video: if this is about extreme feminists, then that's about as stupid as saying "anti-communism is complete bull!@#$ because there was a lot of violence directed towards them by fascists!" and vice-versa, or "equality is bull&*!@ because some people identifying with a movement are being dumb". So, no. That argument really has no leg to stand on.
Also, bear in mind that the asshat atheist is the guy who posted this to a rape victim on reddit:
“I will make you a rape victim if you don’t %^&* off.”
“Yeah. Well, you deserved it. So, %^&* you. I hope it happens again soon. I’m tired of being treated like #$%^ by you mean little #$%^s and then you using your rape as an excuse. @#$% you. I think we should give the guy who raped you a medal. I hope you #$%^ing drown in rape semen, you ugly, mean-spirited cow. Actually, I don’t believe you were ever raped! What man would be tasteless enough to stick his ^&*! into a human cesspool like you? Nice gif of a turd going into my mouth. Is that kind of like the way that rapists $%^& went in your pussy? Or did he use your #$%^&*! Or was it both? Maybe you should think about it really hard for the next few hours. Relive it as much as possible. You know? Try to recall: was it my pussy or my ass?”
“I’m going to rape you with my fist.”
“BTW, you have to admit, when I told you that I hope you drown in rape semen, you got a little wet, didn’t you? It’s okay. We’re friends now. You can share.”
“!@#$ you, liar. All night you !@#$%^s have tried to @#$% on me and tear me down. Then when I do the same it’s like, “Whoa man! That’s too far. Calm down.” No. %^&* you. Go get raped in whatever orifice you have to get @#$%ing raped in. I am sick of your $%^&. I regret nothing.”
Also, his argument of female supremacy is bull@#$%. MRA is bull%^&* when feminism is basically after the exact same thing. I can't even bring myself to finish the video because wow, he is more of an idiot than I thought.
Post by
Skreeran
God, I'm trying so hard not to wish violence on that guy.
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