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Wait... I won't be a tree anymore?
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Post by
hymer
I dislike the '
Gonna
be
awesome
now
' type abilities. Same thing with potions. I rarely get around to using them. Who knows, maybe I need even more to be awesome in a little while, and then I've already used it? And since I hardly use them, I don't benefit.
That said, I think I like this new change. I just hope I'll learn to use my new CD effectively.
Post by
240282
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
skribs
Naturalite, there will still be tree form, its just a cooldown. That said, GC posted about the forms, saying the druid sort of takes on the role of that class in the form. Bear = warrior, who can tank or DPS. While bears aren't DPS, they still can hit pretty hard (I used to farm mobs by spamming swipe in bear form, before hurricane lost its CD). Kitty = rogue, which can stealth and DPS. In cata, both bear/cat should be able to interrupt as well. Moonkin = mage, which can cast DPS but can't heal. Tree = healer, which can cast DPS and heal. But trees can't cast DPS, making them UP in that regard. So Blizzard had to choose between balancing trees higher on healing (unfair in PvE to the others), balancing trees lower on damage to make tree form worth it (unfair in PvP to them), or just remove it.
Hymer, that's a good point, but part of being a good healer is learning when to use your abilities. In the 5x1, I agree that on-use CDs are pointless (because when you need them, you'd have to recast all your abilities) but GC says they're trying to get away from WG on CD, otherwise Rejuv. So you're more likely to use the direct heals which would benefit from those abilities.
Speaking as a Holy Pally, I've seen a lot of use from the 2PT10 bonus (makes one of my 3-min CDs also apply a 35% healing buff on myself for the duration) and Avenging Wrath which you linked in "be". On Valithria, it helps in the final sprint. It's also useful when mobs enrage, on tank swaps, during spikes (e.g. a tank died on marrowgar and needed a brez, 3 stacks on Festergut) or when things just go wrong.
I used to be like you - I'd never use my CDs out of fear that if they weren't up in thirty seconds we might get hit harder. What I've come to realize is that if you keep putting it off you'll never use them. If you never use them, you're not using your class to the fullest. So start using them liberally, and you'll find a happy medium where you know when to use them. So any time you think you may need it now, use it. Unless you used it on a fight where its expected at a certain time, there's no resion not to use it later.
Also, you linked some DPS abilities. Unless you're planning on using it at a specific point in the fight, you should use it every cooldown. That's how you get max DPS.
Post by
hymer
Thanks skribs. Good points.
Post by
68208
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404185
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Post by
556357
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68208
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Post by
schaver
Your healing will be buffed enough so you won't need the "tree form" buff more than before.
They also want healer to sometimes deal some damage (will still kept be low) but have more fun than just using 3 skill.
Druid have already enough healing skill, but most just don't use half of them. With the new mechanic, the buff so certain skill or change to another one, we will have to change our way of doing it. Nothing more.
And now, when you'll shift to tree (Which wasnt there at the start... it's only been added later) You'll have a bigger healing bonus.
Your form will even be revamped. And you're qq'ing like a kid because he don't have his candy ? Great job.
It's only a preview. Anyone, in any class saying he's rerolling his class, just because of a preview, is really just a dumbass. The change won't even see the light before the end of summer and there's so little info (because yes, guess what, the information they gave is not the only change and is not final) that saying that just have nonsense.
So stop qq'ing, stay up for more info and when cata will show his face, re-learn to play your class and I'm pretty sure you'll enjoy it more then now.
You uh, haven't been reading much about the healing changes have you? Not only have they repeatedly said that they want healers to have to worry about their mana (i.e. no we will NOT have a bunch of extra mp sitting around to dps with), but they've ALSO said time after time that heals will actually be healing for LESS of a character's overall health pool. And where are you reading that tree form is going to give a more substantial healing bonus? Certainly nowhere in this post. And did you perhaps stop to think that it was added for a
reason?
Say, oh I dunno, that it's how druids heal competitively with other classes? Maybe check your facts before flaming people with legit complaints next time.
Post by
schaver
Now, ToL is a buff to your HoTs and it prevents you from casting damage or CC. In PvE it doesn't matter - but in PvP that wrath adds a small amount to a burst. So,
if it is balanced around you healing in caster form
, its actually a buff.
Look at it this way - what if Blizzard gave you the effects of ToL while in caster form if you were specced into those talents? Then you would have the current resto druid with the healing power of tree form but the flexibility of caster form. This is more likely to happen, IMO, than them simply removing Tree of Life.
They are going to balance the resto tree with the other healers - in this case, other healers can cast damage or utility spells while in holy/resto, so why not druids?
This would be really slick if it were true, but they've given no indication that this is going to be the case. I might just be being a huge negative nancy but couched as it is, it doesn't sound like this is going to be the case. Further, every healing spec for every class (except paladins for sure at this point for obvious reasons) have innate +healing in their mastery, which is consistent with what they were saying they wanted to do as far as removing "boring" talents. As this seems to be their whole design philosophy, it doesn't seem prudent to expect additional "boring" healing buff talents within the tree, and since the mastery doesn't indicate we'll get anything more than other healers, where then are they going to fiat in that buff you think is "likely to happen?"
Also, while other healers *can* use damage or utility spells, like you pointed out no one really does this in PvE, which is of great concern to many of us. Also, consider the spriest: they're limited to a certain spellset, so the "being able to use more stuff" argument holds just about as much water with me as people saying they like to look at their freaking armor.
Post by
hymer
if it is balanced around you healing in caster form
This would be really slick if it were true, but they've given no indication that this is going to be the case.
I guess that's in how you read it. I read it the same way skribs did:
Mechanically, it feels unfair for a druid to have to give up so much offense and utility in order to be just as good at healing as the other classes who are not asked to make that trade. We are exploring the exact benefit the druid gets from Tree of Life.
I read this to mean: "We're finding out exactly what the benefits of ToL is, so we can replicate them, but without the form."
Post by
skribs
A lot of people are reading into the changes in Cataclysm as "This 1 change = nerf OMG I need to reroll/quit." People don't realize that we don't have
any
of the numbers and all of the "OMG NERF" is just pointless QQ until you can see the numbers.
I for one am going to trust Blizzard will at the very least attempt to balance their nerfs. For example, heals will be a smaller portion of player's health pools. However, incoming damage will be a smaller portion of players health pools too. This means you don't need to worry right away if someone takes a hit, because they're not going to die in the next GCD if you don't bother to heal them now. So it's a nerf and a buff at the same time, which nets no actual nerf or buff, except in the fact it gives you a bit more time to react.
Similarly, with Tree of Life, if you go to a blue tracker you'll see all of the posts GC makes in that thread about "we're not just removing all the effects you get."
Because Druids were never meant to BE like other healers. We've always been unique, whether it be for good or bad.
I stopped reading here, because you completely ignored the balance issue. Let's say that all healers are balanced around being able to do a certain amount of healing. We'll give that number as 10k HPS, because its a nice benchmark. If Blizzard said "but wait, druids in tree form can't attack, we need to give them more HPS" and buffed druids up to 12k, all of a sudden you've got a 5-druid raid with the power of 6 other healers. So high end guilds go full druid and drop the rest from the group so they can add another DPS. It's not fair to the other healers.
Or Blizzard could instead say "Druids will do 10k HPS just like the other healers, but we don't want you to be able to attack." How would you feel if, because of your class, you had more weaknesses without a strength to balance it out?
That's the balance issue of it all, which is what Blizzard is getting at. It's not a single player game where you can balance around survivability and damage on a sliding scale. PvE is all about what you can do in your role, while PvP is about the survivability vs. damage issue. Making druids balanced with the other healers in one aspect will make them OP or UP in the other, with something as restricting as tree form.
Edit: I decided to read the rest of your post, and it looked like a bunch of well-formatted whining. I don't know what your point was about half of it, or where you get your statistics from (e.g. "I speak for most..." you don't speak for me, you don't speak for anyone but you really, unless you've actually conducted a valid poll). I don't know why you're QQing about cookie cutter, since Blizzard introduced mastery to get
away from
cookie cutter, and I don't know why you think the new eclipse mechanic having a special UI thing is bad. Is it bad that combo points have their own UI?
Post by
68208
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ljudsnubbe
Guys, noone knows how it will turn out yet, but Im sure blizz will balance it just fine
It will probably be like a short period with extra healing, like the wings on palas. An extra Spellpower-trinket with a cool treeformanimation.
Or it will be like Metamorph on warlocks, a short period with new spells availible. We dont know yet.
Anyway, I for one am happy they want to do this. Im tired of not being able to CC or dps without sacrificing spellpower, its not like shamahealers get a SP-debuff every time they drop a groundingtotem, or everytime a priest uses smite their next heal is gimped by 25%. Everytime we do anything except healing, we have to sacrifice a GCD (and mana) if we wanna heal as good as any other healer.
Im also tired of staring at the same old tree all the time. I love the gamestyle of my restodruid, thats why I play it. I didnt roll it because "omg, tree of life looks awesome!", Ive tried different healers and I liked the hot-juggeling-playstyle of druids so I keep playing it.
To all you players who love your tree so much you cant stand the thought of not being able to be in treeform 100% of the time: PRINTSCREEN, print a copy, frame it and put the picture next to your computer. Problem solved
Post by
321957
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Post by
389643
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Post by
Supremacy
Naturalite, there will still be tree form, its just a cooldown. That said, GC posted about the forms, saying the druid sort of takes on the role of that class in the form. Bear = warrior, who can tank or DPS. While bears aren't DPS, they still can hit pretty hard (I used to farm mobs by spamming swipe in bear form, before hurricane lost its CD). Kitty = rogue, which can stealth and DPS. In cata, both bear/cat should be able to interrupt as well. Moonkin = mage, which can cast DPS but can't heal. Tree = healer, which can cast DPS and heal. But trees can't cast DPS, making them UP in that regard. So Blizzard had to choose between balancing trees higher on healing (unfair in PvE to the others), balancing trees lower on damage to make tree form worth it (unfair in PvP to them), or just remove it.
With all due respect, this isn't exactly the whole truth. It's not really taking everything about the class into consideration. Saying "Other healers can also cast DPS spells, or don't have to give up their utility" makes it sound like being a druid healer was somehow lacking in that department. So, it makes it sound like Blizzard is helping us out.
The problem is that "lacking in that department" is part of the reason that people roll druids. I made a post on the actual WoW forums (*shudder*) that got into this at length, but the gist of it is that the entire idea of the druid class - ever since this game was introduced - is that you make a choice, far more than other classes, about what you want to sacrifice to gain something. You want to be a powerful melee DPS? Your healing is going to suffer. You want to be a powerful melee DPS? Your casting is going to suffer.
They're not, you know, shy about this. Druids actually take on other forms to drive this point home. It's part of the reason I have a druid. One of my favorite memories is being in a not-so-great group in the Scarlet Monastery back in ol' school WoW. The group asked what I was going to do. I said "I'll do what druids do best: Improvise." You have a choice, far, far more than other classes, about what you can choose to specialize in.
Utilizing a form as a druid is a way to send that clear message to your group or raid. "I am a druid, but, as you can see, I'm here to heal/tank/dps. While I might be able to briefly fulfill one of those other roles, that is not my strong point." It's not just a choice, it's a commitment to that choice.
Which they are taking away for one spec of one class, for reasons that have no basis in any kind of PVE reality.
You want me to give me the freedom to cast more combat and CC spells? Really? You want my non-modified, non-hit capped, non-boosted spells during the Blood Council? Is that really going to make a difference? The five global cooldowns it takes to cast Moonfire (Miss, Miss, Miss, Miss, there we go) is going to save us from Sindragosa enraging. Right.
And as it is now, if you for whatever reason want to start throwing out moonfires? It's not like you have to input some kind of complex mathematical equation than translate the Dead Sea Scrolls to do it. You just press Moonfire.
"Oh, but then you lose the raid healing bonus, so it hurts the raid."
"
YOU THINK THAT HURTS THE RAID MORE THAN WHEN THE HEALER STARTS DPSING? HUH? WHAT DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO CAUSE MORE WIPES? THE BRIEF LOSS OF A HEALING AURA, OR WHEN JOEYNIGHTELF STARS GOING 'PEW PEW I AM LIEK DOOMKIN' INSTEAD OF USING REGROWTH?
"
Moreover, it's not like they couldn't just modify the existing talent. You want your big cooldown as a healing druid? How about it turning you into a Really Big Tree, with augmented yadda yadda? Spawn a bunch of acorns that heal party members. See that? That took like three seconds of thinking.
It doesn't make any sense to A) Not give restoration druids new healing spells because they have too many spells already, and then B) Take away the ability that they have, and then give them another spell that does the exact same thing.
Not being in a form doesn't really make you feel like being a druid. This is what they're turning it into:
Balance - Moonkin Form
Feral DPS - Cat Form
Feral Tank - Bear Form
Restoration - Tree of Life Form, but only sometimes, and only for a few seconds.
It's just a silly, counterproductive, arbitrary change for PVE. I had actually been thinking about leveling my druid to be a restoration druid, but...I don't see that happening if this goes through.
Post by
368348
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Post by
260787
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Post by
Supremacy
I think most people, including me, are just upset to see tree of life form go as its really cool looking. =) I would seriously consider rerolling as I have a priest and paladin alt and night elf males are ugly.
I could possibly handle that. I played as a night elf male with white hair, so my cat form was changed from a panther to...well, what it is now. I didn't like that cosmetic change, but, meh, I learned to live with it.
This isn't a cosmetic change, though. They're just taking away the form. They're not giving anything to replace the form. You can't even really call them Tree of Life druids, anymore.
Hell, you can't even really call them druids.
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