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[Ret] Importance of Expertise?
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Post by
Lorkin
Here's my
Ret paladin
.
I'm at ZERO expertise atm. I'll be gaining 8 expertise (72 rating) once I finally get the T9 legs. I'm still 8 expertise shy of at least the 16 expertise required before
Glyph of Vengence
.
My question is how important is expertise? What percentage of damage can this attribute to having a low score? My recount only shows around a 1.5% dodge chance on the target practice dummy. Assuming I get to the 26 expertise needed, will this effectively only eliminate the missing damage I get from dodged attacks?
Maybe I'm missing something but this doesn't seem like much of a problem. I'll probably make up the gap with better gear later on but it's not something worth gemming right now correct? For trash I use Seal of Cleave so I'd even be missing the 10 free expertise.
Post by
225109
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Post by
Lorkin
Thanks for the feedback sky3union. The 2nd ring I was going to upgrade to the Ashen Verdict once I get some ICC runs in. Farming H HoR (shutter) doesn't seem like much fun to me for something that would eventually get replaced anyways.
The leather belt does have expertise, but trying to greed win a leather piece sounds harder than you think. As for trash, generally who cares about that. Boss damage is what would make or break a pug run (along with other things) and not make you look like a total noob.
So back to my original question, how important is expertise? Would I be able to get away with 18/26 expertise on bosses in ICC 10/25 until I can get lucky with a drop or two with expertise? How much does expertise really contribute to overall dps?
Post by
299264
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225109
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Post by
PKainus
Judgements can't be dodged or parried, but they can miss. They act as a spell in terms of expertise, but a melee attack in terms of the hit cap (8%). Expertise is worth more DPS than crit and haste, but less than hit. Expertise isn't worth gemming, whereas hit is. However, since you're choosing between hit / expertise / crit / haste on items, you want to get the best (hit and expertise) capped through gear, ideally.
EDIT: As long as you get either one capped (hit/expertise), Ret shouldn't worry too much about getting the other one capped.Well, I wouldn't say that exactly. Hit is worth more DPS than even strength, so it's always worth it to gem for it if you need the hit.
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225109
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260150
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299264
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Post by
Lorkin
Sorry Obvious but that list looks like a lot of stuff I was NOT going for (cept for pants). Obvious choice would be the sanct T10 pants but the stars have to align for you to get that from VoA. My other frost I reserve for other T10 pieces I'm afraid. The Lady ring is nice but might be even harder to farm than the rest of the gear.
I'll AT LEAST get the T9 pants which gives 8 expertise. Since I'm still using the EoT libram I'll be using SoV anyways for bosses so add the glyph in there. I'm now sitting at the 18/26 I mentioned and am 8 expertise away from the cap.
Since I'm at 18/26 expertise I would be sitting at ~ 2% dodge as sky3union mentioned, which ~ 2% dps? Avg around 5k dps (based on 10 mans) that's about ~ 100 dps loss?
Worth worrying about in a 10/25 man pug for bosses, I don't so. It's probably less than 2% due to the magic damage ret's do vs say a fury warrior or rogue comparison. So for now probably I'll stick with 18/25 until I get better pieces. Shame the easier to get pre-raid PLATE pieces don't have much much expertise.
Oh sky3union, that happens to me all the time. I generally copy my post from time to time if I make a huge long thread just incase it gacks on me. I've been there before, written what I thought was pages and pages of gold when the post just died on me. It's hard to rewrite it again after that.
Post by
Davidson
It appears that you want someone to say, "It's really not important" because it doesn't seem like you want to do anything about it.
So, it's really not that important.
But what is important is the ArP on your gear...you don't want any. That Banner has got to go...amongst other things...
Post by
PKainus
Since I'm at 18/26 expertise I would be sitting at ~ 2% dodge as sky3union mentioned, which ~ 2% dps? Avg around 5k dps (based on 10 mans) that's about ~ 100 dps loss?
Worth worrying about in a 10/25 man pug for bosses, I don't so.Well, going by this attitude, you might as well just use non-epic gems. Oh, and forget about professions. Enchants aren't that important. Glyphs aren't really, either.
Alone, it might only be ~100 DPS loss, but it's a game of inches, and everything adds up.
Post by
228908
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Post by
PKainus
Right but the real question is if you're trading +20 str gems for +20 expertise gems, is it worth it to hit the cap?No. Hit > Strength > Expertise. It's worth it to gem hit, but not expertise.
Post by
Lorkin
Bah, I knew I'd hit a cord with folks here with my last statement. Let me re-phrase it then.
I'll aim to get the items listed by the various contributers, and thank you for that. I won't gem for expertise since I believe the majority of you think it's a bad idea. I will for now attempt to run stuff with my current expertise and hope for some luck with the loot gods.
As far as my other gear (armor pen etc) it's just what was made available. I've read in other threads that Banner > NES > MoT so I'll use it for now since I offspec rolled on it a long long time ago. My other option is to use the JC boar and stack more strength gems to up my AP.
I guess I was hoping for an easier alternative than to having to purchase leather pieces and sub them in for my gap in expertise. But you gotta admit that < 2% dps loss doesn't warrant a complete restructuring of gear to meet some cap. I know I have to get there eventually but pre-raid gear doesn't leave many flexible options. Might as well just raid and hope for the best.
Thanks again for all the responses.
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307945
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299264
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307945
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228908
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Post by
dslg604t
http://www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=140291&p=1773292
I don't think it shows the working, but it shows the stat weightings.
The main reason expertise isn't worth aiming for is that STR gives more DPS than it.
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