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10.2.5
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Stamina > Avoidance
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Post by
Squishalot
As an example, the defense cap is a jargon term related to tanking, and refers to the ammount of defense skill you need to achieve 100% immunity to critical hits.
Yes, and we're trying to remove it as a 'jargon' term, because it doesn't make logical sense. Jargon is supposed to help your understanding, not oversimplify it.
Post by
481452
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Dunsinane
Defense SKILL is the important number for crit immunity. So you're well beyond where you need to be in order to be crit immune in BC heroics.
Post by
pezz
Jargon
is terminology which is especially defined in relationship to a specific activity, profession, or group. The term most often covers the language used by people who work in a particular area or who have a common interest. Much like slang, it can develop as a kind of short-hand, to express ideas that are frequently discussed between members of a group, though it can also be developed deliberately using chosen terms. A standard term may be given a more precise or unique usage among practitioners of a field. In many cases this causes a barrier to communication with those not familiar with the language of the field. As an example, the
defense cap
is a jargon term related to
tanking
, and refers to the ammount of defense skill you need to achieve 100%
immunity to critical hits
.
When someone says defense cap, he says 540. It is wrong to confuse people with statements like "there is no cap to defense", because when they refer to the "defense cap" as to the ammount of 540 defense (in the current expansion), they are correct. A more helpful approach would be describing that extra defense over the cap is not bad, and it might even be the best stat to put into a yellow socket, provided the socket bonus is worth going for. IMO defense is the only avoidance related stat that is worth putting into a socket. It also gives little extra bonuses to Paladins -> more hp gained from an Ardent Defender proc, and to Death Knights -> more damage reduction on IBF.
A lovely and interesting read, but you're wrong. No where does it say 'it is completely okay for jargon to be completely wrong so that everyone gets worse in the field in which it applies.'
Post by
Quest
LOL
People trying to use reason to defending being illogical.
Makes a lot of sense!
Post by
Thror
Yes, and we're trying to remove it as a 'jargon' term, because it doesn't make logical sense. Jargon is supposed to help your understanding, not oversimplify it.
If an IT guy talks to you in IT jargon, he
definitely
does not try to help you understand. Proffesionals use jargon to talk to each other. When they talk to a laic, they use normal words, or describe what the jargon terms stand for. When two experienced tanks talk to each other and they refer to "defense cap", and someone charges in and says "defense has no cap", he is not the smartest really.
Defense cap is a useful jargon term. Its short, rolls on the tongue nicely, and everyone knows you mean 540 when you say "defense cap" (except weird lvl 70 paladins with 560 defense maybe). Also everyone who has had a set of tanking items with some semi-decent item level, and who is not a complete idiot knows, that Defense actually can go higher than to 540. Really smart people can also notice that the avoidance stats the defense grants (you know, when you roll over it in your character sheet) still go up, so getting more than 540 defense is still somewhat beneficial.
Fighting against the term "defense cap" is pointless. It takes way more effort than just describing what "defense cap" means, and whats the advantage of having more than 540 defense.
Also, LOL at people who cring to sheer logic to mask their low IQ. I wonder, are metaphors logical? If not, are people who use metaphors stupid?
(O hai epicly derailed thred. If anyone was interested, i already wrote an answer to the OPs question in the last post on the previous page.)
Post by
481452
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Quest
Yes, and we're trying to remove it as a 'jargon' term, because it doesn't make logical sense. Jargon is supposed to help your understanding, not oversimplify it.
If an IT guy talks to you in IT jargon, he
definitely
does not try to help you understand. Proffesionals use jargon to talk to each other. When they talk to a laic, they use normal words, or describe what the jargon terms stand for. When two experienced tanks talk to each other and they refer to "defense cap", and someone charges in and says "defense has no cap", he is not the smartest really.
Defense cap is a useful jargon term. Its short, rolls on the tongue nicely, and everyone knows you mean 540 when you say "defense cap" (except weird lvl 70 paladins with 560 defense maybe). Also everyone who has had a set of tanking items with some semi-decent item level, and who is not a complete idiot knows, that Defense actually can go higher than to 540. Really smart people can also notice that the avoidance stats the defense grants (you know, when you roll over it in your character sheet) still go up, so getting more than 540 defense is still somewhat beneficial.
Fighting against the term "defense cap" is pointless. It takes way more effort than just describing what "defense cap" means, and whats the advantage of having more than 540 defense.
Also, LOL at people who cring to sheer logic to mask their low IQ. I wonder, are metaphors logical? If not, are people who use metaphors stupid?
(O hai epicly derailed thred. If anyone was interested, i already wrote an answer to the OPs question in the last post on the previous page.)
Yet you're still wrong, no matter how much $%^&* about it and project your ineptitudes, and if you say it while knowing its wrong, you're even worse than ignorant. =]
Post by
Quest
Please stop saying Defense Cap, it make my ears bleed.
Yeah, I'm weird, but I'm trying to learn...
Can't you just call it Defense-Minimum? Or if you insist on Defense-Cap, then we should put an asterisk * by it or something, maybe even call it a Defense Soft-Cap perhaps?
Defense min
or
critcap
are both intelligent and acceptable.
Post by
pezz
Yes, and we're trying to remove it as a 'jargon' term, because it doesn't make logical sense. Jargon is supposed to help your understanding, not oversimplify it.
If an IT guy talks to you in IT jargon, he
definitely
does not try to help you understand. Proffesionals use jargon to talk to each other. When they talk to a laic, they use normal words, or describe what the jargon terms stand for. When two experienced tanks talk to each other and they refer to "defense cap", and someone charges in and says "defense has no cap", he is not the smartest really.
Defense cap is a useful jargon term. Its short, rolls on the tongue nicely, and everyone knows you mean 540 when you say "defense cap" (except weird lvl 70 paladins with 560 defense maybe). Also everyone who has had a set of tanking items with some semi-decent item level, and who is not a complete idiot knows, that Defense actually can go higher than to 540. Really smart people can also notice that the avoidance stats the defense grants (you know, when you roll over it in your character sheet) still go up, so getting more than 540 defense is still somewhat beneficial.
Fighting against the term "defense cap" is pointless. It takes way more effort than just describing what "defense cap" means, and whats the advantage of having more than 540 defense.
Also, LOL at people who cring to sheer logic to mask their low IQ. I wonder, are metaphors logical? If not, are people who use metaphors stupid?
(O hai epicly derailed thred. If anyone was interested, i already wrote an answer to the OPs question in the last post on the previous page.)
Let me explain the difference between jargon and an incorrectly used term. The word 'cap' is jargon. There is a meaning behind it that is sort of part of a more general meaning for the word, but its specific WoW meaning is different and is something people who know a thing or two about the game use to talk to each other. The phrase 'defense cap' when used to refer to 540 defense, is a misused phrase only used by people who don't have a clear understanding of what they're talking about. Because if you knew what the jargon 'cap' meant, and you knew how defense works, it would be patently obvious to you that 540 is not the defense cap. If you use the term defense cap to refer to 540 defense, it's obvious that you either don't understand the jargon, or don't understand how defense works. Defending that lack of understanding by saying 'well everyone else does it' or making up definitions to unrelated words, or calling people who don't make the same mistakes you do dumb does not make you right.
Post by
299264
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
FallenLeaves
The fish trap exists because of the fish. Once you've gotten the fish you can forget the trap. The rabbit snare exists because of the rabbit. Once you've gotten the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words exist because of meaning. Once you've gotten the meaning, you can forget the words. Where can I find a man who has forgotten words so that I can have a word with him?
QFT
Lets help our newer friends out and not confuse them, even accidentally.
Once you have hit 535 Defense (theoretically) you can start tanking heroics. Once you hit 540 defense you can (theoretically) start tanking raids. Those numbers, however, are minimums when we are talking out of jargon. People say cap, even though it is a bad habit, because that is how a lot of us were introduced to it. I am guilty of it myself, though I do try to control it.
To the OP welcome to the wowhead paladin forums your mind will bleed a little bit sometimes.
Post by
Nazeka
We could call it a Defence Soft Cap >_>
Post by
AnrDaemon
We could call it a Defence Soft Cap >_>
We better don't.
Post by
blademeld
It is a defense soft cap.
Defense minimum and crit cap are both misleading due to resilience.
Post by
Achloryn
Ardent Defender.
Yes, you don't *need* it. But it's "nice to have".
are you really implying that not having defense over the uncrittable point is similar to not taking ardent defender?
No. They are saying that with
Ardent Defender
, you will get more more healing if you have more defense, even over the defense
minimum
...
(at least I think so?)
.......okay Ithaquah, you got me there... AD's healing is affected by defense rating and i had honestly forgotten that.
also, i will try to change my
jargon
to "defense soft-cap" or "crit immunity" or something of the sort.
i -still- cannot wait till cata comes out and all of this is useless information anymore.. lol
Post by
AnrDaemon
i -still- cannot wait till cata comes out and all of this is useless information anymore.. lol
Count me in. Although if they charge us $50++ for cataclysm without any refund, I doubt i will play this game any longer.
Post by
Achloryn
i -still- cannot wait till cata comes out and all of this is useless information anymore.. lol
Count me in. Although if they charge us $50++ for cataclysm without any refund, I doubt i will play this game any longer.
i can't imagine it would be any more expensive than Wrath was at launch. ($39.99 US, unless you got the special edition with the frostwrym pet or w/e it was).
Post by
AnrDaemon
Ok, offtopic.
Classic key cost $14 and includes 30 days of play time.
TBC key cost $14 and includes nothing.
Wrath key cost $35. But it is full key. If you create a new account, it will count as all 3. But if you have at least trial/friend invite, you won't be able to apply it, unless you upgrade it to TBC. And then it includes nothing.
All-in-all, to be able to play the game, you'll have to overpay ~$30.
It got me about a week of reading and cracking my head over it to understand this robbery.
And I HIGHLY doubt Blizzard will do anything about this mess. You'll see, in 2 years, we'll have to apply five keys at once to our accounts just to play the game without being kicked from parties/guilds for not having latest upgrade.
Post by
blademeld
Rofl.
It's the cost of loyalty :3
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