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The worst things said by puggers
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Post by
318206
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Post by
179389
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Post by
skribs
Interesting topic to weigh in on:
Regarding GS - it isn't everything, but it isn't nothing either. Yes, sometimes 3600 will out-perform 4500. But if everything else is equal, that won't happen, and the extra gear makes up for the lack of skill. An extreme example is my level 66 warlock could only do 900 DPS. That 80 warlock in full epics that does 1100 would be a better choice, even though I know my class a lot better than he does. The gear (and in this case levels) makes up the difference.
So any time someone compliments you for doing better than people with a higher GS, what that is saying is "you have this much of a handicap and yet you do better, which means you're that much better than them." It is a compliment.
Regarding assignments - if all you do is heal your assignment, you may not be doing your best but people can't complain when your target dies. If the tanks die and a healer is getting blamed - it will be the healer assigned the tank unless you were told "to help out." That said, I would have done what you did, but I would have simply posted a healing meter to say "seriously, the lack of heals are not
my
fault."
Bad things said in PuGs...
How about the guild run on Festergut 25 where the heals are broken down as such:
Prot Pally (me)
2 Holy Priests
Prot Pally (used JoL)
Disc Priest
Shadow Priest
2 Resto Druids
We were all alive the whole fight.
Post by
322008
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Post by
318206
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Post by
304384
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Post by
ShadowSerpent
@SerpentSnake: Where did I contradict myself? In a PuG, if you don't know/trust other healers, you'll always want to cover for what you'll assume to be a lack of skill on their part, while they might simply have a different healing style than what you're used to...
Very odd question, since I quoted your contradiction.
I would agree with you, except for the single fact that healadins have beacon of light. Like I said, they shouldn't even need a third healer if they kept beacon of light up the entire time. The tanks would've stayed alive during raid healing
unless
they get hit so hard that the ~.5 seconds it takes for the beacon to proc would be too slow, in which case (for this encounter) there's something seriously wrong with
the tank's mitigation
the palladin's ability to throw in a holy light every now and then
I usually throw in a holy light on whomever needs some healing when the tank is around 75%, this way I still heal the raid -especially glyphed-, and although I get overheal on my current target the tank gets the full amount and is usually topped off again after a crit or a quick flash on another person in need.
Since:....I check the healing by the paladins, and none of them was using Holy Light. ...I can guess which one it is.
The only time a palladin healer ever has to touch his heal target is to refresh his beacon of light and sacred shield+flash of light hot with the exception of
some
boss fights, like the ones with decimate where you simply can't take the risk to wait for beacon to proc. The rest can be spent by simply healing the rest of the raid.
Now ofcourse it may be that they expected to only heal the tanks, were indeed oblivious to the incoming druid hots and panicked. While that would certainly bring
some
blame to the druid (even just for expecting everyone at 80 to know at least a little bit about other classes especially the ones sharing your role- there's just too much ebayers to take things for granted), it is still their own damn fault that they don't know other classes well enough, don't have the right addons for raids (or just don't use them), and can't keep their heads cool enough to think "hey, while I heal this slack a beacon on the tank might be a good idea."
Sure, I also panic sometimes and forget something important (mainly prioritizing heal spells, when someone is low I tend to start with a HL instead of the faster FoL if HS is on cd). But I realise it's my fault and I don't try to pin it on someone else, like these guys did to that poor tree ;)
Post by
318206
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Post by
SlowSide
But your original post is saying it's the druids fault for not keeping the raid topped off. Then you go on to say that If the pallies had been playing correctly they wouldn't have needed the druid anyways. That is the contradictory part. You can not point to X as the failure for not healing enough then say that X isn't needed for healing.
Since he was not really needed he should have been able to set himself to follow & make a sandwich & everything should have been fine.
The fact that the raid didn't wipe until the
Tanks died
should be an indicator that the pallies weren't doing their job, even if they felt the raid needed more healing that is what Beacon is for. Also the fact that they didn't cast a single HL even as the tanks were going down means they either weren't paying attention to their job or don't know how to play.
I have healed it on my pally w/ a druid, no one died, I heal the raid about half the time & the OT the other half (I don't bother moving beacon each time the tanks switch). Yes the raid dips low (50% in some cases) for a few seconds after the orbs come out, in my case it came down to trust, I trust our other healer to keep the raid alive while I focus mostly on the tank w/o beacon . With 2 Holy pallies it would be cake & the druid would probably be bored to tears.
Had the pallies done their job right they wouldn't even need the druid, so ANY healing on ANY target from the druid should have made their life easier, IF they knew what they were doing.
Post by
318206
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Post by
SlowSide
I did not blame anyone in my OP...
I said...
that Paladin might have a point, if you had kept the raid topped off, they wouldn't have had to heal the raid
(...)
if those Paladins weren't both using their beacon (each on a different tank), they failed bad and if they were, they could've healed the tanks while also healing the raid
Note the use of the words "might" and "if", indicating conditional... This is a catch 22 situation, so obviously, you have to be someone contradicting if you try to understand/explain what happened... From what Johan typed in his OP (what I understood, anyways...), the Druid (him) healed the Paladins' assignment because he thought (or was worried) they weren't getting the job done on tanks, meanwhile, the Paladins healed the raid because they thought (or were worried) the Druid wasn't getting the job done on raid. End result is a tank died, causing a wipe, so tank healers would be to blame, if anything, but I'd rather blame lack of communication, both on player level and on add-on level. If all healers in the raid had been using a decent healing UI, they'd been able to see incoming heals and the tank healers would have stuck to healing tanks, if they saw the whole raid was HoT blanketed, meaning there would've been no reason for the Druid to drop his assignment either. That being said, I maintain there's no point in having 3 healers in VoA, especially with 2 Paladins who can simply beacon a tank each and heal the raid directly and each heal their respective tank with Beacon.
I wasn't part of that raid, I can't blame someone based on a single account. Johan gave us his point of view, but maybe the concerned Paladins would explain what happened some other way, depending on their own evaluation of what happened. I'm not saying someone is lying, I'm simply saying that neither one of the three healers wanted to cause a wipe and they all seemed to do what they thought was required to avoid a wipe, but still failed, somewhere along the way.
Hey, if you have a different opinion or a non-contradicting way to explain what happened, why it happened and how to prevent it, go for it, I'm all ears, but as far as I'm concerned, them healers failed together, as a team, causing a wipe. Simple adjustments would probably have been sufficient to keep this raid going, but people disbanded instead and started pointing fingers, which isn't very constructive.
I somewhat misinterpreted what you had said in your original post... But the 0 Holy Lights cast & tanks dieing first with 2 Holy Pallies as tank healers alone makes my place the blame on them. Now it may be true that had the 3 healers trusted each other thing may have turned out differently. In that their poor play style would have been sufficient, but it could also be said that had the pallies know what they were doing things would have turned out differently. There is no way to know and I agree that pointing fingers & disbanding doesn't get anyone anywhere.
Post by
ShadowSerpent
I did not blame anyone in my OP...
I said...
that Paladin might have a point, if you had kept the raid topped off, they wouldn't have had to heal the raid
(...)
if those Paladins weren't both using their beacon (each on a different tank), they failed bad and if they were, they could've healed the tanks while also healing the raid
I already understood that you were just talking hypothetical, but still, you
are
laying the blame (granted, "possible" blame) on both parties seperately thus making this contradictory. However, I also added a "=p" after it, meaning
it wasn't meant seriously
! Wow, now there's a surprise, miscommunication on the internet.
Anyway, I don't feel like talking about that part anymore. It's ripping this thing out of context.
I still do not agree with you that it was simply miscommunication. I do agree that there
is
some, but not that it's the reason for failure. If the pallies knew their spec well enough (which I doubt as most people nowadays OS healer or tank just for faster groups) they wouldn't have needed the druid unless they were in gear so terrible they shouldn't heal a raid in the first place. Or ofcourse the tank was in gear so bad he shouldn't tank a raid. But in no way can this be the responsibility of the druid. What, you expect him to tell the pally how to heal? He just would've gotten a snyde comment (GTFO u dont now pally healz is not dr00d healz nub?) or a kick. Point in case is beacon of light. Assuming everyone has gear at the reccomended (perhaps even minimum required) level of VoA10, two pally healers are more then enough to succesfully heal there. You don't need a third healer with any setup anyway.
I am talking from the point of view of a MS pally healer here (
my main
, probably in prot for dailies while I'm gearing my rogue). Not a druid. I know the different styles that are viable for raids, and not casting ANY holy lights and/or not keeping beacon up is in no way any of them.
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