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I think blizzard went to far this time (Thrall related)
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Post by
306612
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Post by
Monday
I personally wouldn't trust my life to Blood Elves, so I think I understand her.
If she wouldn't trust her life to the Blood Elves, why did she petition to have them in the Horde?
Because they were her former people. (Don't you know sarcasm when you hear it?)))
Post by
306612
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Post by
344679
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Post by
taurenmoo812
what we really have to realize, is that thrall is a one of a kind guy. he is probably one of the only orcs who holds peace at a very high importance. after thrall, can you name any other very credible leaders who wouldn't lead the horde down, an atleast Sort of dark path? probably only Saurfang, but he was killed by the forsaken that thrall let in to the horde.
Obviously I presume you meant Draenosh there and not his father Varok.
Yes, there is a lot of battle harderned horde who want to fight the alliance to the death, but Thrall has given the horde something no other leader has. He's given them a future for there young and a way to survive outside of the endless wars, something even doomhammer wasn't able to do.
And there is the divide within the horde as far as the moral code goes. The shamanistic orcs, mostly those who follow thralls position of reconnecting with the spirital, frostwolves, and others, theres also the tauren, who for all accounts are the most uncorrupted race on the horde side, now even being able to be paladins, hee. Trolls have always been two worlds of course, but they learned from Thralls rules and what he taught them to be like, and they followed it.
The forsaken are of course as far from the honor principle that Thrall has taught the horde as you can get. The blood elves.. I actully think are more redeemed then people give them credit for, but they are more held in favour to the forsaken.
Post by
Monday
what we really have to realize, is that thrall is a one of a kind guy. he is probably one of the only orcs who holds peace at a very high importance. after thrall, can you name any other very credible leaders who wouldn't lead the horde down, an atleast Sort of dark path? probably only Saurfang, but he was killed by the forsaken that thrall let in to the horde.
Obviously I presume you meant Draenosh there and not his father Varok.
Yes, there is a lot of battle harderned horde who want to fight the alliance to the death, but Thrall has given the horde something no other leader has. He's given them a future for there young and a way to survive outside of the endless wars, something even doomhammer wasn't able to do.
Aye while Doomhammer tried, Thrall was the only one with the strength of Character to do so.
Post by
taurenmoo812
what we really have to realize, is that thrall is a one of a kind guy. he is probably one of the only orcs who holds peace at a very high importance. after thrall, can you name any other very credible leaders who wouldn't lead the horde down, an atleast Sort of dark path? probably only Saurfang, but he was killed by the forsaken that thrall let in to the horde.
Obviously I presume you meant Draenosh there and not his father Varok.
Yes, there is a lot of battle harderned horde who want to fight the alliance to the death, but Thrall has given the horde something no other leader has. He's given them a future for there young and a way to survive outside of the endless wars, something even doomhammer wasn't able to do.
Aye while Doomhammer tried, Thrall was the only one with the strength of Character to do so.
Which is what makes me admire him more then any other lore character. It took what Thrall has to actully save the horde both from the alliance and from itself. An orc orphan, raised by humans in both combat, love, hate and knowledge, to learning how to be one with his people and the elements. It took his unique story and character to save the horde, a combination of orcish beliefs and might, but with a humans ideal of deplomacy and leadership.. so anyone who *!@#$es him off like he's just another savage orc needs to get there fanny out the game and into the lore a bit more.
Post by
TheTempest
Thrall is the only faction leader i feel a bit proud of. And would march up to defend any day, with other things than honor points in my mind.
As far as i see it Varian is mostly hated even by many ally players aswell, same applies for Garrosh. Perhaps they thought to balance the game a bit if you see what i mean :P Give both the leading factions on each side of the wall an !@#$%^& as the leader....
But still i hate to see Thrall go, i will miss him deeply :( </3 The only orc i ever loved(and yeah for those wondering that was actually a kill bill refference)
Post by
Adamsm
As far as i see it Varian is mostly hated even by many ally players aswell, same applies for Garrosh. Perhaps they thought to balance the game a bit if you see what i mean :P Give both the leading factions on each side of the wall an !@#$%^& as the leader....Not really, the Varian vote is starting to swing around with the way he treats Saurfang at ICC.. but Garrosh is still a &*!@#$ at this time.
Post by
Monday
As far as i see it Varian is mostly hated even by many ally players aswell, same applies for Garrosh. Perhaps they thought to balance the game a bit if you see what i mean :P Give both the leading factions on each side of the wall an !@#$%^& as the leader....Not really, the Varian vote is starting to swing around with the way he treats Saurfang at ICC.. but Garrosh is still a &*!@#$ at this time.
Mainly because its been a long time since Wrathgate, and declaring war, which gives him time to fully look over his opinions and feelings. This is all just my opinion by the way.
Post by
285998
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Post by
451455
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Post by
Monday
Ok, I was gone for a few days because my computer acted up, but now I'm back.
C: Nobody here cares aobut Varian besides Darkton. So pretty much nobody cares about Varian.
Dralas does.
Adamsm does.
Rexz does.
Vgkthehordeslye does.
Daniel Whitcomb does.
Lecks does.
Ganit does.
Supermacy does.
Ashadial does.
I meant as "cared" as in a positive view of the Character. Sure while most here care about him it is generally negative (though not all is negative of course, I don't want to see any replies like that, it shows you have nothing else to say), although the majority view, and my own too, is starting to become positive because of his actions in ICC.
Post by
344679
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Post by
Adamsm
Heh, isn't RAS gone though?
No.Technically, they are; or at least the more militant ones are; between being wiped out in the Battle and the lockdown on Undercity now, they aren't the threat they were.
Post by
306612
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Post by
Rankkor
Your diffenition of 'fair' is that the Horde never looks bad and the Alliance can look as bad as deemed needed.
nope frank, my definition of fair is that when one faction has their time to shine, the other one should have it too..
and when a faction is made look evil, the other one should as well....
I never said that I don't want the horde to NEVER look evil, and the alliance ALLWAYS look evil.
what I did said was, when one faction is made evil, to balance things out, the oposite faction is the next one who should be made to look evil.....
if the horde was already made to look very evil in WOTLK, why the hell must it AGAIN me made to look evil in cataclysm? it just isn't fair.
something this simple should be easy enough to understand, regardless of how polished/unpolished my english is......
Ehh... 'potential'? I think you just want to see them as bad guys, there is not really much of a matter as 'potential'.
news flash darkie, the alliance DOES have a rather HUGE ammount of skeletons in their closets, the only reason those skeletons remain there, is due to the writers, but from the stormwind's noble house corruption, to the druids of the fang , to fandral's experimentation, to ironforge dwarves having a psycophat woman with a cursed half-breed as heir to the throne, and now the recent adition of a vicious bloodthirsty feral race, the alliance as more than enough potential to look evil......
but the story-writers (who are the ones who really make anything happen in this game) are too busy trowing dirt at the image of the horde to actually bother to develop these lore-arcs
I don't "Want" to see them as bad guys, I want equality, I'm really sick of blizzard's recent fixation of making the horde look less and less like the one I was actually proud of belonging to.
on WOTLK the horde's reputation was smeared enough with the broken front and wrathgate, don't you think on cataclysm it should be the alliance's time to look evil? that's called "Balance" AKA not playing favorites here.
You are saying thats its just plain wrong to make the Horde look evil,, but if the Alliance does it, they can be evil.
again stop missinterpreting what I write and modify it to your convinience.
what I said is that it's wrong to make 1 faction look evil 5 TIMES IN A ROW.
it's fair if the horde is made look evil, but then it's the alliance's turn to look evil, and then it's the horde's turn, and then the alliance's turn, and then the horde's turn.........
ye catch me drift?
Garrosh is just going to be a temporyary leader for Thrall (Although I wouldnt expect Thrall to regain power two weeks in Cata, or even during Cata).
actually we don't know that, I sure as hell hope garrosh is indeed a temporal leader, like bolvar was when he was leading stormwind in varian's absence.
The thing to like this that Garrosh makes the inside politics more interesting
I've had enough "Intresting" on the horde-side, I want some boring for a change, and at the same time i want more alliance "intresting" stuff happening (given that in this game, the definition of intresting=boned, made to look evil, be portrayed as jerks)
You have asked a few times what would we think if this happend to the Alliance in some way, and do you want to know what? If Varian and Genn or whatever left thier citys temporyarly to go check out Deepholom, and VanCleef came back and took over Stormwind, I wouldnt mind it, because A, I can tell Varian will come back, and B, everything Edwin does could make a neat storyline.
well well well, now THIS is something I DID NOT saw comming........
but still, your example is much better than the one of the horde, because on your example, edwinn would had taken stormwind illegitimally, wich of course means it's temporal, and varian will obiously make a glorious return.......
but on the horde side, thrall actually appoints garrohs as warchief........ wich could (dear god I hope not) mean he could remain there permanently.
what I actually asked is, what would you feel like if varian was replaced PERMANENTLY by a total jerk?
that varian is shoved into a raid instance that will eventually be buried and forgotten (how many people REALLY do pre-bc or TBC raids these days?) and the throne of stormwind remains in the hands of a jerk that doesn't deserves it for good?
the horde started with thrall, and the horde should remain with him forever, till he dies of old-age or something.........
stepping down due to some crisis is not the way I wanted thrall's rule to end, :S it feels sooooo anti-climatic.
Post by
Adamsm
news flash darkie, the alliance DOES have a rather HUGE ammount of skeletons in their closets, the only reason those skeletons remain there, is due to the writers, but from the stormwind's noble house corruption, to the druids of the fang , to fandral's experimentation, to ironforge dwarves having a psycophat woman with a cursed half-breed as heir to the throne, and now the recent adition of a vicious bloodthirsty feral race, the alliance as more than enough potential to look evil.....House of Nobles fell with Onyxia, Druids of the Fang are one sect that are 'dealt' with once you finish off WC, no one knows what Fandral is using the Morrowgrain for; can't be any worse then Sylvanas and her Blight, Moira is not in line for the Throne anymore, she's the new 'Thaness' of the Dark Iron's till her baby is born.
But, as said before, the Alliance polices itself more then the Horde does.
ut on the horde side, thrall actually appoints garrohs as warchief........ wich could (dear god I hope not) mean he could remain there permanently.We don't know what is happening, calm yourself Rank, your freaking out over half the information, your going to give yourself an ulcer.
the horde started with thrall, and the horde should remain with him forever, till he dies of old-age or something.........
stepping down due to some crisis is not the way I wanted thrall's rule to end, :S it feels sooooo anti-climatic.Alright, and this question is for Tauren too: Thrall remains in Origimmar, doesn't go to Hyjal, so say Ragnaros wins, and slaughters the Circle, the Ring and Malfurion... he then heads south, cutting a swath through Felwood, Ashenvale, Azshara and blows up Origimmar because Thrall, rather then going to fight and help them defeat the major threat to Kalimdor, sat around on his arse in the throne room there and did nothing... is better then him going up to fight?
Post by
Rankkor
thrall can do something AND remain the leader of the horde at the same time......
you tell me, how good is it to save azeroth from a nasty evil monster, but when it's time to make a peace offer with the alliance, the current warchief tells them to shove it on their asses?
there will never be peace between horde and alliance as long as 2 warmongers remain in power...... as it is it was hard with only 1, now imagine that with 2 :S
a faction is what their leader represents, and thrall represents the best features of the horde (honor, wisdom, courage, tolerance, benevolence, strenght, duty, diplomacy, and cunning)
garrosh on the other hand represents something much darker (again, they say he's gonna change, but him expelling all non-orcs from orgrimar leads me to believe that this change will be minimal) he represents fury, lack of restraint, recklessness, disrespect of the elder, lack of honor (he dared to atack varian on a peace meeting, as well as break their oath of non-agression on theramoore), tendency towards violence and war, and a long list.
now, these negative traits of garrosh can be removed (again, writers can do anything, from making arthas a saint, to making hogger non-elite) but no matter how they modify garrosh, he is just not thrall.
depriving the horde of their most awesome leader is a foul play on us, because thrall will still be present on azeroth, doing a greater good , but we can no longer say "he's our leader" "he represets us" "he will lead us to a greater future"
instead we say "well, we have many heroes, like thrall and saurfang, but our leader will make us sink back to the old days, the dark days, the ones where we doomed ourselves and sold our honor for glory"
a blue poster already said that "garrosh's horde will have honor, but is not the same honor as thrall's"
that's reason enough NOT to like it.
granted, we don't know what is gonna happen, how good or bad will garrohs's rule will be, but I do know something
is not gonna be the same as thrall, and that's reason enough to hate it.......
:S thrall could easily lead the horde, AND defend hyjal against archimonde, why the hell does he has to step down from warchief to defend that damn tree again? he can defend it and still lead his people. he has proven in the past that he can do both (save the world and lead his people and still have time to yell FOR DOOMHAMMER)
Post by
Adamsm
a blue poster already said that "garrosh's horde will have honor, but is not the same honor as thrall's"Which means what exactly? After all, Doomhammer's Horde didn't have the same system of Honour that Thrall's does after all.
Look, we get it; Garrosh is a war monger(at the moment) so, rather then sitting back and not reacting to the Alliance, he's going to push against them. And yes, that does mean things like the Forsaken making a bee-line for the Gilnean's, Warsong began to attack in Ashenvale(more then they already were), and other things will happen.... but who's to say it wouldn't have happened with Thrall as well?
Can you really see Thrall just leaving the Worgen alone? As, for all he knows, these are the same ones as the Silverpine ones?(not sure if you actually bring any information to him about the stuff.). Honestly? The more I see you and Tauren go against the new lore incoming, the more it seems you both would rather that Warcraft just goes back to Vanilla, and to forget all the stuff of BC/Wrath/Cata. All things need to change, or else it stagnates and becomes ruined... and Thrall is on his way down that path, as Blizzard does next to nothing with him lately, and seems content to leave the 'Orc who was at the forefront of Battle' from the time he freed his people, to during the expedition to Kalimdor and the Battle for Hyjal.
Instead of yelling and screaming "ZOMG They're killing the Horde! They're killing Thrall!" let's see where the new information is going, what's actually going to happen, and then go from there.
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