To gearing pallies: What is best really? (On crit vs Int)

Post by pezz

To pezz

If you realy believe both accounts are mine just ask an admin to check the IP adresses.

To Sky3union

Atm I have 44% crit chance on Holy Light and 54% Crit chance on Holy Shock. This is without buffs or raid and with crap gear.

When I'm in a raid my crit usually is 70-85% crit with crap gear.

Fun fact: crit and crap are not proper nouns.

~~Just~~ Since I want to save forum space I will not quote, just write replies, and this one is to Rouen.

Some of your replies were unneccessary and did not make a sense. Like the one about me not going anywhere else then HCs when you could just have asked for my armory link.

~~Like~~ Telling me I haven't been outside hcs* without ~~a single~~ any evidence just shows you are a troll. And even if not you waste forum space and I will report you.

*Make up your mind whether 'HC' should be capitalized or not. Alternatively, just write 'heroics.' It won't take much longer.

I like how you started the text of your double post with a comment about saving space on the forum.

Go ahead and report him, I'm sure he'll get IP banned.

Edit: Rouen, there isn't a healing spell crit cap, I'm almost positive.

Melee have a crit cap because crit will push itself off the table before it pushes off the last 4 or 5% or so of hit, and the 24% chance for a glancing blow. I've never read anything to suggest spell crit pushes itself off the table before spell hits as far as healing spells go.

Post by Rouen

Can we add pulle as a live example to your "How not to suck at forums" thread Pezz? He'd make a fine example from which scientists can learn much from.

Psychology experiment! Go Go!

Rouen, there isn't a healing spell crit cap, I'm almost positive.

Melee have a crit cap because crit will push itself off the table before it pushes off the last 4 or 5% or so of hit, and the 24% chance for a glancing blow.

Hmm, I thought the cap applied to healing spells too. I'll have to find out if one exists for healing.

Post by pezz

There is a slight crit depression on offensive spells on raid bosses, but I doubt that applies to healing. And obviously glancing blows aren't a factor. I'm not saying 100% that there isn't a healing spell crit cap below 100%, but it must be for some arbitrary reason not related to the reasons there are other crit caps.

And I might link this thread there for fun.

Post by Rouen

Dooooooo it!

I'll give you a cookie!

If you're really good, I'll give you a bear flank.... oh s***!

Post by pezz

It's already point number 10.

I didn't put an explanatory paragraph with it. I didn't it would be needed. This thread really speaks for itself.

Also: ./roar

Post by Rouen

Any suggestions you want to make on how to construct the Crit Vs Int sticky? Is there any math I missed that I could include?

I know I want to slip in the math for the extra 8% crit from Conviction and Sanctity of Battle from the Ret tree.

Post by pezz

I wouldn't bother. The sub-ret spec was useful back when gearing took a while. Now I don't really see the appeal with 245 gear coming from heroics badges.

If you really want it in there, give the crit build the benefit of the doubt and say they'd have it and the int build would've gone sub-prot. I'm sure the math will still come out for int.

Post by Rouen

I'll change the gear to full 25 man ToGC levels for the extra sockets so fully show the rift between the two. I know I didn't compare the amount of critical strike regen between the intellect and crit paladins, I'll do that in the sticky. You'll see a lot of cut and paste from my first two posts, but I'll try to streamline them a bit and try to explain a little more clearly what's going on.

Post by Rouen

LOLOLOL

You're still using Tier 7? LOLOLOL

This explains everything.

And hes cousing

What's a cousing?

Actually I take that back, the mysterious 30% crit from raid buffs remains unexplained.

Post by pezz

I think pulle thinks i200 and i213 T7 give seperate bonuses. He might be thinking he gets 20% HS crit.

This guy gets better and better.

Edit: He was also oddly specific about being in a raid that was srs bznz before 3.1. Private server maybe?

Post by pezz

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=39632 Disagree with you with you about Holy Light and Holy Shock having same % in Crit

And hes cousing agrees too http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40570

The way you typed this out suggested you might not fully understand how T7 and T7.5 bonuses interact.

Post by Rouen

Atm i got 44% Crit chance on Holy Light and 54% Crit chance on Holy Shock this is without buffs or raid and with Crap gear.

When im in raid my Crit usuly is 70-85% Crit with crap gear.

That mysterious 30% crit from raid buffs. Please enlighten me.

I think pulle things i200 and i213 T7 give seperate bonuses. He might be thinking he gets 20% HS crit.

This guy gets better and better.

Edit: He was also oddly specific about being in a raid that was srs bznz before 3.1. Private server maybe?What are you talking about? The 20% Crit on HL from where? :s

You can't even get the differences from HL and HS right...

Post by pezz

Oops. And apparently, neither can I. I missed that completely.

Post by Rouen

I'll be the first one to go and blow my frost and triumph badges to downgrade them to valor badges and get that sweet, sweet bonus.

YOUR HEAD ASPLODE.

I thought you were too busy to explain your other points. You apparently have the time to continue trolling, why not use it constructively and try to convince us why it's better with actual numbers?

Edit: Oops. And apparently, neither can I. I missed that completely.

PEZZ! I expected better of you! i r sad panda

Post by pezz

Post by 206732

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Post by Rouen

Fun superman attitude you got you can never have wrong but if somebody proves you totaly wrong it is

I'm quite charismatic, what can I say? :-D

You haven't proven me wrong yet, I keep asking for the numbers and you keep trolling instead. We have already demonstrated that intellect is better, why don't you just accept that this is the way Blizzard designed the game and move on? This isn't some kind of E-peen contest, it's about the facts. Wowhead is about making information available, correct information. Until you start providing correct information, you will be laughed off these forums. Why don't you go to the official forums instead? They tolerate your kind.

P.s people failed on moving from walls thats why i got time to write.

lolwut? You make no sense, as usual.

Post by pezz

Fun superman attitude you got you can never have wrong but if somebody proves you totaly wrong it is -out with the lazor beam-

Halaryth, that's exactly what you did to me on the first page of this thread. It doesn't not count because you posted that under your other account.

I'm not him, and do you got any evidence that im him?

If you want collect evidence tell a admin or anybody else come here and tell that person to check my and the other guys IP adress not hard. Until then stop accusing people for stuff they haven't done.

i wil do maht monda pruvin u r teh samez. untl ten u r trolls.

Post by valundar

P.s people failed on moving from walls thats why i got time to write.

lolwut? You make no sense, as usual.

I believe what pulle means is that his raid doesn't know that walls of fire are hot....

oh, and pulle...

You had previously asked why we just never asked for a character link....

so, if you wouldn't mind... could we please have that link?

Thank you.

multi Edit: i fail at quotes....

Post by Rouen

Please show me where you proved me wrong, I'm sure I missed it because I've had to translate your posts like a five year old's handwriting.

The OP asked "Which is better, Crit or Int"

You said...

Crit is the best stat for Holy Paladin. It is very easy to get around 80% crit chance on Holy Light. And making you to get easily alot of mana back.

You provided no numbers. I did. Here's a slightly shortened version of my post.

The next test will include Blessing of Kings, Arcane Intellect, and Mark of the Wild. Since Intellect increases critical rate by a set amount, we'll need to figure that out first.

Arcane Intellect provides 60 intellect and Mark provides 37, for a total of 97. We'll add that to both paladin's total intellect and then apply the kings buff. Once applied, we'll deduce how much intellect as added and thus how much extra crit was also added.

Intellect Paladin: 1828 + 97 = 1925 x 1.1 = 2117 intellect
Critical Failadin: 1225 + 97 = 1322 x 1.1 = 1454 intellect

2117 - 1828 = 289 intellect improvement
1454 - 1225 = 229 intellect improvement

289 Intellect adds 4335 to the Intellect Paladin's mana pool, increasing it to 35,869.
229 Intellect adds 3435 to the Critical Failadin's mana pool, increasing it to 25,984.

According to wowwiki (source), it takes 166.667 points of intellect to get 1% of spell crit.

289 / 166.667 = 1.73% rounded, increasing the Intellect Paladin's crit to 35.04%
229 / 166.667 = 1.37% rounded, increasing the Critical Failadin's crit to 44% even.

Let's see just how well your 8.96% "superior" critical compares to our 9885 extra mana.

Test Two: Intellect Paladin
Divine Plea: 35,869 x 0.25 x 8 = 71,738
Replenishment: 35,869 x 0.002 x 480 = 34,434.24
Flash of Light Illumination: 180 x 0.3504 = 63 crits. 308 x 63 = 19,404 x 0.3 = 5,821.2 mana regained.
Holy Light Illumination: 80 x 0.4104 = 33 crits. 1,274 x 33 = 42,042 x 0.3 = 12,612.6 mana regained.
Holy Shock Illumination: 80 x 0.4104 = 33 crits. 791 x 33 = 26,103 x 0.3 = 7,830.9 mana regained.

71,738 + 34,434.24 + 5,821.2 + 12,612.6 + 7,830.9 = 132,436.94 total mana regained.

Test Two: Critical Failadin
Divine Plea: 25,984 x 0.25 x 8 = 51,968
Replenishment: 25,984 x 0.002 x 480 = 24,944.64
Flash of Light Illumination: 180 x 0.44 = 79 crits. 308 x 79 = 24,332 x 0.3 = 7,299.6 mana regained.
Holy Light Illumination: 80 x 0.5 = 40 crits. 1,274 x 40 = 50,960 x 0.3 = 15,288 mana regained.
Holy Shock Illumination: 80 x 0.5 = 40 crits. 791 x 40 = 31,640 x 0.3 = 9,492 mana regained.

51,968 + 24,944.64 + 7,299.6 + 15,288 + 9,492 = 108,992.24 total mana regained.

132,436.94 - 108,992.24 = 23,444.7 is how much more mana the Intellect stacked paladin regained.

Let's recap.

Test One: Intellect Paladin regenerated 20,468.4 more than Failadin.
Test Two (Buffed): Intellect Paladin regenerated 23,444.7 more than Failadin.

I'll humor you by doing a quick test by giving you a retarded amount of crit. Watch and be amazed. I will give all your abilities an extra 30% crit, just so show you how wrong you really are. I will used the raid buffed Test Two numbers, and all I will change is giving the Critical Failadin + 30% crit to all his spells. The Test Two Intellect Paladin's numbers will remain unchanged.

Test Two: Criticial Failadin (With + 30% to previous test numbers on healing crit)
Divine Plea: 25,984 x 0.25 x 8 = 51,968
Replenishment: 25,984 x 0.002 x 480 = 24,944.64
Flash of Light Illumination: 180 x 0.74 = 133 crits. 308 x 133 = 40964 x 0.3 = 12,289.2
Holy Light Illumination: 80 x 0.8 = 64 crits. 1274 x 64 = 81,563 x 0.3 = 24,468.9
Holy Shock Illumination: 80 x 0.8 = 64 crits. 791 x 64 = 50,624 x 0.3 = 15,187.2

51,968 + 24,944.64 + 12,289.2 + 24,468.9 + 15,187.2 = 128,857.94 total mana regained.

Let's compare that to the mana regained from the intellect paladin.

132,436.94 - 128,857.94 = 3,579 more mana regained by the intellect paladin. Congradulations, even with the same extra gear, with different gems to give us intellect and you more crit, plus a bonus 30% crit, you still do not generate more mana then an intellect paladin. I even gave you pure crit DPS trinkets because they offered more crit.

What theorycrafting cannot deduce with pen and paper is just how much of your critical strikes went to overhealing. Pure wasted healing.

Oh, let's not forget these numbers. This test selected a certain amount of spells to use as an example. Let's factor in actually how much they cost versus how much you gained back.

180 Flash of Lights: 308 x 180 = 55,440 mana
80 Holy Lights: 1274 x 80 = 101,920 mana
80 Holy Shocks: 791 x 80 = 63,280 mana

55,440 + 101,920 + 63,280 = 220,640 mana spent total by both paladins on this test.

Intellect paladin has 132,436.94 (regen) + 35,869 (base) = 168,305.94 mana avaiable
Critical Failadin has 108,992.24 (regen from the unmodified Test Two) + 25,984 = 134,976.24
Critical Failadin has 128,857.94 (regen from Test Two and a free 20% crit bonus) + 25,984 = 154,841.94

168,305.94 - 134,976.24 = 33,329.74 is how much more resources the Intellect Paladin has over the unmodified Test Two Critical Failadin.
168,305.94 - 154,841.94 = 13,464 is how much more resources the Intellect Paladin has over the Test Two Critical Failadin with an additional free 30% critical strike from the sky.

Just go away troll. You've been critically pwnd.

To gearing pallies: What is best *really*? (On crit vs Int)