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Post by
504053
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Post by
504057
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Post by
369432
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Post by
253550
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Post by
hashmel
Actually that build unbuffed (besides frost presence) has...
4207 AP
181 (5.51%) hit
31 expertise
21.91% dodge
31.5% parry
35811 health
It's lacking in dodge, hit, and health and how amusing is that, with chill of the throne is around ~35% total avoidance, ~7% less than i estimated. Better head to the DK forums preaching that they can't tank any in-game content now.
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Chocolate Meringue Pie!
Post by
80642
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Post by
LookOut
Chocolate pie ftw!
kkthxbye!
Post by
80642
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Post by
LookOut
1. Whats agile? never heard of it
2. What is the lightning picture buff and what does it do?
Agile
, procs off
Idol of Mutilation
in Cat Form and off
Idol of the Crying Moon
. (the cat form T9 version is 200 though, not a stacking 44)
Mongoose proc
, aka Lightning Speed
That said, I prefer being hitcapped and expertise softcapped as well ...
Post by
490907
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Post by
80642
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Post by
MegaVolt
Not a single tank has threat problems on bosses if they play correct and there friends play correct there is nothing to realy discuss about tanks who can't keep threat.
And more Hp does only help in 1 way and that is if there is noob healers who can't do there job so they get some extra seconds of time to breath.
Sure they got little more armor and if the thing u say is true about 60% dodge then they would drop to 40% and have around 5% more avoidance and that clearly doesn't make up for all the talents + spells dks has more then druids and also the synergy the get from the high % in parry combinded with talent spell deflection etc.
And ofc we are gimping our threat with frost presence and over 5k AP -roll eyes- and ofc the 5 dps in the 10 man raid or the 18 dps in 25 mans has no clue about abilities which resets or removes threat ofc.
And ofc the fact that there is also 18 people dpsing so they all will have a little % amount of the threat if they count it in %. Since tank can have 100% threat on 1 target that i know since i have tanked by myself with 2 diffrent tanks and sometimes when i look on mobs i see it says i got 100% threat on it.
Which means following:
1. First the 18 dps and 1 tank will split up the 100% to 19 pots.
2. To get aggro from a boss the dps need to dps so much that he steals threat from hes fellow dpsers or from the tank to pass hes % threat pot. Which will be very hard since he will have ok dmg and +threat from frost presence.
3. Add abilities which removes threat a voila threat doesn't matter.
Go research how threat works. You obviously have absolutely no clue about it. Google "wowwiki" and look up the threat page.
When i used the page to see my dk i did not suffer in any place and i still yet had 32-33% Parry.
When i was done with the page i had raid buffed around 32-33% Parry and 23-24% Dodge.
What i have heard from friends and other people druid tanks raid buffed have around 50% dodge with debuff it is 30%
While dk gets 32% parry and 4% dodge putting him on 36% avoidance while druid has only 30%.
Druids easily get 60% dodge with raid buffs, even more if they gem for it. That gives Druids a crapton more avoidance than you get on your example DK.
Sure they will have more armor which reduces physical dmg with extra %. But it still doesn't reduce magic dmg taken.
So let me see you would take druid tank just because he can have more hp then dk but dk can remove alot of dmgs.
You troll or what? ^.-
Dodge also doesn't reduce magic damage taken since spells can't be dodged.
Stop accusing other people of being trolls when they give you 100% accurate information. Grow a brain and learn to use it before you go around and insult people which are obviously way smarter than you.
And F*CKING READ THIS:
http://wowthinktank.blogspot.com/2009/10/general-druid-icewell-radiance-bears.html
And then read it again. And then try to understand it. And then write a huge apology to everyone here.
You generally seem to be under the impression that avoidance is extremely important and max HP is not since it doesn't reduce the incoming damage. That's an understandable mistake to make (that you are a total smug about it on the other hand is not understandable) but it is an mistake nontheless.
There are two ways for a tank to die:
One way is by slow creeping damage. Taking lots and lots of small hits which the healers just can't heal fast enough because their healing output is too low. In those situations high avoidance is a good thing - but
this never happens in WoW
. Tank healers have insane throughput and are overhealing most of the time. Healing the continuous average damage on the tank is absolutely no problem for any healer.
The second way to die is spiky damage. Getting your whole health blown off within just a few seconds. This is what happens a lot in WoW - and avoidance helps
not at all
in these situations. These spiky situations happen when you are unlucky and not dodge/parry an attack a few times in a row while simultaniously having some kind of raid damage debuff on you (e.g. stacks on Gormock) or with incapacitated healers (e.g. smashes on Algalon which forces your main healer to move). Those are the situations you really want to prepare for, those are the ones that wipe you. Having high avoidance will not prevent them. Yes, it will make them less likely - but even with 90% avoidance (which is impossible to get) you will eventually not dodge/parry something 3 times in a row and then die.
That is why every single tank regardless of class will gem for
stamina
in end game content. Stamina is the by far most important stat for all tanks, much more important than avoidance.
So even assuming that you assumption about low Druid avoidance was true (which it is most certainly not, a Druid gemmed for avoidance will have way more than a DK, it's just a stupid thing to do and that's why you won't ever see it in a raid) it wouldn't matter.
The higher health pool alone makes Druids awesome tanks.
You said yourself that you have basically no real raiding experience. If you ever get into a real raid you will see it for yourself. Until you do: Just believe us. We have played the current end game content successfully and this is just how WoW works.
Post by
390621
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Post by
LookOut
If you ever did TotGC 25man as a tank you would very quickly realise that what you are on about is bulls**t! I can bet hundreds of guilds STILL cant get past Gormok the Impaler cause he hits HARD and in very quick succesion. Unless you got 50K plus health your going down. Regardless of how much healers spam heal your ass.
I would love for you to prove to US that your precious avoidance will save you then.
Untill then GTFO
If a healer can't heal the tank he sucks it's as simple as that.
Go play a healer for a change. Try healing a raid. I bet you that you'll reconsider.
O and something Arkst forgot to mention: Gormok's Impale ability is
unavoidable
. And being a bleed, it ignores armour. And for that reason alone, I switch my Darkmooncard trinket to a stam trinket every time I do that fight (on 25man heroic).
Another example: Anub'arak. He occasionally does
Freezing Slash
, which stuns you. You being stunned = no dodge, no parry, no block, NOTHING! And Anub hurts (on heroic). Icehowl stuns tanks loads of time as well, and hurts (on heroic).
So yeah, stam all the way!
And you are definitely a troll, because you don't listen to reason. MegaVolt might believe you aren't, but I do.
So that's it from me, this discussion will probably go on forever with your deaf ears.
P.S. for tanks, being hit capped is not a must. It's nice (and I prefer it as well), but really not a must. I've heard it's different for dk's.
Post by
369432
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Post by
LookOut
I'll do one very last attempt
Still missing link to your side where u got the gear so your picture means nothing. :D
Then allow me to do it for him:
clicky!
Don't forget to click bear form, just like i clicked frost presence on yours.
Result: WAY more stam, WAY more armour, and o dear only 4% less avoidance than your dk!
Dear god we're gonna die!
And that's without mongoose or the darkmoon card proccing.... so go home kid.
Post by
MegaVolt
And you are definitely a troll, because you don't listen to reason. MegaVolt might believe you aren't, but I do.
Not listening to reason doesn't make him a troll. It makes him an idiot. There is a difference ;)
Trolling includes posting silly things on purpose with the knowledge of them being stupid and with the only intention to provoke.
peipo certainly has the intention to provoke but I honestly think he is not aware of his own stupidity so he does not qualify as troll.
peipo:
I'm telling you there are Druid tanks with 60% avoidance raid buffed. Believe it or not, I'm certainly not wasting my time on some item site. It is the truth.
As I said earlier: Spell Deflection
is a #$%^ty talent
. DKs usually don't even spec into it! Bringing it up is ridiculous. Magic damage generally doesn't matter much.
Tanks do die to spike damage. It has nothing to do with fail healers. No matter how much avoidance you have, even with 90% - you will eventually get hit several times in a row. You can not deny that basic fact.
A tank death usually involves some kind of "worst case" scenario. You want to be prepared for the worst case in a raid. Worst case includes very unlucky RNG, meaning you don't parry/dodge anything. In other words: Avoidance almost
doesn't help at all
to prevent tank death. In worst case scenarios avoidance is irrelevant.
You are talking about things you have never seen. You have never done even Ulduar hard modes, certainly no ToC hard modes. Bosses there hit extremely hard, they can do 50k damage within 2 seconds. You
need
high HP to survive there and no healer can help if you die from one hit because you only got 30k HP.
Yes, when running Naxx or easy Ulduar bosses HP doesn't matter much. They don't hit hard. It is very different in encounters that are actually difficult. Since you have not seen those bosses yourself it is really very silly to just assume that HP doesn't matter there either when everyone who has cleared ToC hard modes tells you differently.
How do you explain the fact that every single tank in every single one of the top raiding guilds will gem for stamina and not for avoidance? Just look up the armory of ensidia tanks. Stamina, lots and lots of stamina.
Are you trying to tell the best players in the world that they are doing it wrong?
Post by
142728
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Post by
MegaVolt
I'm Hijaal the IMBA healer / Best healer in WHOLE WoW atm. And i have healed alot but i got bored about it so now im going back to tanking.
Now THAT is trolling. The difference is subtile but it's there ;)
Post by
hashmel
I can list a class' spellbook too.
12% passive damage reduction
45%
max health
20% damage reduction
32% max health crittable heal
and 20% bonus to incoming heals
25% AP as physical damage absorption on crit (just about always up and we tend to have about 7.5k AP raid buffed)
Along with being able to remain within 5% avoidance of any tank class we have enough health to take 1 more hit from an Uld/TotGC boss than a non-druid tank and remain standing. Bears have more health, more armor, and generally the same amount of avoidance as any other tank while generally dealing the most dps out of the various tanks as well.
If health is such a &#%$ stat for tanking then why does so much come on tank gear and if avoidance is so golden for tanking then why aren't more rogues tanking raid bosses? And if you're such a complete genius then why does your grammar suck (it's quite the eyesore) and why can't you figure out how to type everything you have to say in one post instead of three back to back posts or use links at the very least to save youself some time so you can get more trolling in?
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