Post by MegaVolt
Any Druid tank has to get into the lower tiers somehow. In every single tank build I've seen so far
Ferocity is used to spend those first 5 points.
Stricktly for hard mode guild progression, would it be viable to put them into
Feral Aggression instead?
Rage should be abundant. Since bear tanking is only my off spec I've not tanked the hard modes yet but even in ToC 10/25 normal mode my rage bar is usually completely full at all times (well, after I got hit once). Is Ferocity really a necessary talent?
Feral Aggression will greatly reduce the damage received by about 5% to 8%. This is a pretty significant difference and taking this talent generally is a good idea in my opinion. The problem is that sacrificing 5 points for it really hurts. But if we skip Ferocity then those 5 points are basically "free" to spend.
I know that a tank with this build will most certainly get rage starved when running the daily hc. I don't care about those and I'm specifically aiming at raids, ToC 10/25 and hard modes.
Opinions?
Post by Aadramelekh
If you have a Paladin or Warlock in the raid, it is usually better to ask them to use their abilities.
1.
Curse of Weakness talented 2/2 reduces the AP by 574 and reduces armor by 5%. Anyway even its base value is stronger than the 411 reduces by
Demo Roar at level 80. And the Warlock has to spend 2 points into that talent, plus you can have a physical damage heavy group to benefit from the armor reduction. But this is somewhat a constraint, since that warlock has to use this curse instead of a DPS one (Agony or something).
2.
Vindication needs only 2 talent points and is automatically applied on Paladin's attacks. At level 80 it reduces 574 AP. If you have a Paladin, have him spend 2 points into this talent. It is the best way to get this debuff on the boss.
3. A
Warrior's shout is the same as a the
Druid version, as they reduce 411 AP at level 80. They both require 5 points to improve it to 574. A Warrior will probably have it talented to last 45 seconds instead of 30.
If you are the only (or main) tank around there, it is worth getting this if you don't have a Warlock or Paladin to use their talented versions. The thing is this is a talent that's usually considered part of a full mitigation focused build, for hard modes / progression bosses that hit harder than what you're used to. The 411 AP reduced by the base version is generally enough. Upgrading it with 5 talent points adds probably another 3-4% reduction or so. It is pretty powerful for bosses that hit for 70000+ base damage.
If you are thinking about not spending 5 points into Ferocity, consider that Maul costs 15 rage (and generates none), Mangle costs 20 rage (and generates 5 / 10 rage), Swipe costs 20 rage (and generates 5 / 10 rage - considering the case of single target tanking) and Lacerate costs 15 rage (and generates 5 / 10).
The thing is that in ToC you'll have pretty high avoidance values. Most likely more than 50% when buffed / procs are rolling. I did find myself sometimes rage starved in critical moments (when pulling for instance) and the DPS members need to be on their toes and react, otherwise overaggro can cause a wipe. The biggest rage eater is Maul. Remember that using Maul doesn't let you auto attack. With haste from gear and 20% from Totem / Icy Talons, you'll easily find yourself Mauling every 1.8-1.9 seconds. When Bloodlust/Heroism was active, I was absolutely astonished to see Maul speed at 1.2 seconds. My TPS was monstrous. But also my rage consumption was ridiculous. Every time during Bloodlust I had to use Enrage to support my TPS because of (un)lucky dodge streaks.
So this is the thing about not spending 5 points into Ferocity. It is a HUGE improvement for tanking and additional DPS (usually fights require 2 tanks and when only one remains necessary, you should switch to cat and pump up DPS, especially in hard modes, where you'll be running on the edge for your first attempts). This talent also improves DPS in cat form by reducing Mangle and Rake costs by 5 energy.
For instance you tank full time on Gormok, then you tank Acidmaw - when Acidmaw dies, you go cat and DPS Dreadscale. When Icehowl arrives, you will remain pussy cat DPS. Just be on your toes to go Bear and taunt if the sh*t hits the fan.
On Haxxraxxus you'll tank the adds. Between add tanking you'll go cat and scratch his a
ss.
On champions you will probably be in tank gear and spec, but also make much use of cat form and its abilities as well.
So consider all these aspects if you are thinking about skipping Ferocity. Feral Aggression is good, but not worth skipping Ferocity for it. My opinion. Probably I'd go with something like this:
click - with 3 points left to spend wherever you like. I would definitely place 2 points into Improved LotP when going for Anub'Arak heroic.
Post by hashmel
come 3.3 all our problems will be solved as the carrion bird pet family's special ability is being buffed to match improved AP reduction from pallies, warriors, druids, and locks
pre 3.3 <
post 3.3this essentially puts hunters in a position where they can supply a vital debuff without the cost of a talent or GCD and only a minor difference in pet dps
Post by MegaVolt
come 3.3 all our problems will be solved as the carrion bird pet family's special ability is being buffed to match improved AP reduction from pallies, warriors, druids, and locks
pre 3.3 <
post 3.3this essentially puts hunters in a position where they can supply a vital debuff without the cost of a talent or GCD and only a minor difference in pet dps
That's really awesome news, I totally would have missed that in the patch notes. Can't wait to tell all hunters in the guild to get a pet bird ;)
Well, I don't imagine it'd be too much trouble to squeeze Improved Curse of weakness in any spec, since it's only 7 points (3 of which can be Suppression for extra spell hit) so only two points are actually 'wasted' either improving Curse of Agony or Corruption.
Usually Warlocks have a hard time to get rid of all the hit on their tier gear so that Supression isn't needed at all. The points are just better off in real dps boosting talents and talenting CoW for any Warlock that isn't affliction specced will be a major dps loss.