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The Fate of the Horde
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Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
1. The Alliance uses a militia of armed and armored civilians. The Horde's "civilians" are more like reservists, being entirely composed of trained and ready soldiers. The Human tailor might be able to handle a sword decently, but the orc tailor has trained with an axe all his life and considers it an extension of his own will.
2. Rankkor was specifically talking about humans
Post by
Adamsm
Like I've said:
Night/High/Blood Elves; they've been fighting for almost their whole existence.
Draenei... same.
Orcs; 50 years of battle, but I don't think the new generations would be as well skilled as the older.
Tauren: Their hunters yes, but not warriors as such, they could survive against the Centaurs.... but seeing as they joined with the Horde because the Centaur clans were wiping them out....
Trolls; Jungle Forest and the others are pure warriors.... the Island trolls for Darkspear? Not as much.
Humans; They've been fighting wars for longer then the Orcs
Dwarves: Fighting wars longer then the humans
Gnomes: 2 wars and their own battle with the Trogs of Gnomer
Undead: Lowest population wise since the Wrathgate, but hardest to kill
Worgen: Been fighting themselves since the end of the 2nd war, but are also humans so same as the normal Human race
Goblins; Goblin's don't fight if they can help it, they'd use tech over physical violence.
So, like it's been said a few times; the races are on equal footing, it just depends on the circumstances for the war.
Post by
Skreeran
Orcs have been fighting since the dawn of their existence. ;)
And trust me, pit one orc against one human with equal training and the orc will win. Just look at Thrall. An exceptional case, no doubt, but as a child, he was able to completely demolish a wooden dummy that adult human soldiers were unable to.
Post by
Adamsm
Orcs have been fighting since the dawn of their existence. ;)
And trust me, pit one orc against one human with equal training and the orc will win. Just look at Thrall. An exceptional case, no doubt, but as a child, he was able to completely demolish a wooden dummy that adult human soldiers were unable to.
Yeah but not actual war, there fighting is like the Taurens and the early humans, against the world.
As for the size thing; humans are used to the orcs now, the tactics and skills that worked for the 1st/2nd war wouldn't work anymore. As for the orc automatically winning if he's up against an equally trained warrior... I don't know, depends on many factors. After all, for all of Thrall's vaulted proweress and ability, the Ogre kicked the hell out of him.
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
After 8 other battles. And the Ogre was given a much better weapon.
Trust me, a human would have to be pretty creative to beat an orc 1v1 with equal training. One blow from that orc could instantly kill him, while the orc could take a dozen or more hits from the human. Orcs have a very clear and defined advantage over human one on one. Humans have the advantage of better crafted armor and weaponry (in most cases), and greater numbers.
Post by
Adamsm
After 8 other battles. And the Ogre was given a much better weapon.
Trust me, a human would have to be pretty creative to beat an orc 1v1 with equal training. One blow from that orc could instantly kill him, while the orc could take a dozen or more hits from the human. Orcs have a very clear and defined advantage over human one on one. Humans have the advantage of better crafted armor and weaponry (in most cases), and greater numbers.
It's still about factors; yes one strike could take a human down... but the same goes for an orc; a throat shot, an eye shot, a heart shot. Again, it's no different then the big man vs the little man, the fight itself is what it's all about.
Post by
Skreeran
But in a fight of big man versus little man, the big man will have the advantage if they are equally trained. Simply because he hits harder and faster.
Edit: Gotta use the restroom here, so lemme just say: I'm not saying the Horde would win. Simply that they aren't pushovers. The Alliance's advantage of greater numbers is countered by the Horde's greater strength.
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
But in a fight of big man versus little man, the big man will have the advantage if they are equally trained. Simply because he hits harder and faster.
I can see harder but not faster. That's one of the reason's gnomes have an advantage over the big races; they move twice as fast(to our eyes). But as strong as an orc is, a dwarf or a draenei would pound them into the ground, as next to trolls and taurens, dwarves are one of the strongest races on Azeroth, and considering the pure size of a draenei well... heh.
Post by
Rankkor
as much as you wanna spin it arround, the whole house of nobles on stomrwind don't know jack about fighing.
their "upper class" snobs have bodyguards that do their dirtywork, and those that have never been involved in conflict, have no way to defend themselves on a fight, they may organize themselves into an improvised militia, but are not quite built up to do a large scale skirmish.
the orcs have no "nobility" everyone is a warrior.
do you truly believe that a human noble-girl would stand a chance against an orc girl?
as far as military training goes, a trained human vs a trained orc, the one that has trained the harder wins.
but an untrained human vs an untrained orc, the human will allways loose.
orcs and tauren are naturally stronger than humans or dwarves, it's just the way life goes.
and then there is the fact that while humans are more numerous than orcs, most humans are civilians.
whereas most orcs are soldiers.
this is the reason the mongolians were able to invade and conquer china.
chineese were more numerous, and their army was huge, but not all chinese were soldiers.
the mongolians were 95% warriors, every one of them knew how to fight.
same principles here.
the point remains, the alliance and the horde are balanced out, all the alliance advantages are balanced by horde advantages.
no side has a clear Uppercut Deus-ex machina to ensure victory on an open war.
the horde used to have such an deus-ex machina on the blight, but not anymore, that crap is out, thank god, we don't need that garbage to win a war.
and yhea U're rite about night elves and draenei, but then again I didn't mentioned them, I mentioned humans and posibly gnomes.
gnomes are a thinkering society, they are used to craft stuff, not fight (despite their involvement in several wars, they were never at the front lines charging anyone)
and humans, while a strong and numerous race, not EVERYONE on their ranks is a combatant.
all orcs, every last man woman and child lives by the axe, blood and thunder pal :P
is part of their culture, and this dates even behond their corruption on draenor, they are a warrior society.
Post by
Skreeran
Faster because bigger muscles can push faster and longer limbs make longer strides.
And I'd say that an orc is or equal strength to a dwarf or draenei. They did kill a lot of draenei, after all, rather easily, even when they didn't outnumber them.
Post by
Adamsm
They did kill a lot of draenei, after all, rather easily, even when they didn't outnumber them.Eh.. most of the early attacks were warbands vs hunting parties, and those were by surprise. One on One, I'd put the favour in the Draenei's corner.
As for the dwarf, I have to disagree there.
Post by
Skreeran
Well, we don't really have any arm wrestling contests to go off of, but we do have the starting stats of Warriors...
Race / Strength
Human 23
Dwarf 25
Night Elf 20
Gnome 18
Orc 26
Tauren 28
Troll 24
Undead 22
Draenei 24
Post by
Adamsm
Id rather go with what we know heh;
Trolls in Doomhammer's own words, are the Azerothian version of Ogres.
Taurens fight with trees.
A Wildhammer stormhammer is so heavy that it would take multiple humans to lift it, yet a dwarf has no problem with that.
Draenei are about as wide as two orcs heh.
I'm not saying orc's aren't strong, but they don't hold a candle compared to the Azeroth races, and the Draenei were overwhelmed by the war bands.
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
HiVolt
Faster because bigger muscles can push faster and longer limbs make longer strides.
Only if there's not too much muscle involved. Muscle weighs more than any other bodily element, even bone. If you have too much muscle, you will be weighted down by it in your swings and strides.
Also:
an eye shot
Is not fatal if the blow doesn't penetrate into the brain. For all we know, an orc could take an arrow to the eye and keep on going no problem. But that's only because we don't know the makeup of the orc skeletal system. If the bone surrounds the optic nerve well enough, and it's thick enough, the arrow could become lodged in the bone and not harm the brain.
Aaand:
as far as military training goes, a trained human vs a trained orc, the one that has trained the harder wins.
Actually, in Warcraft, I would put my money on the noble human girl. It's more likely that she's had some sort of combat training due to her noble birth, and due to the relative equality among the genders in Warcraft. If you were to say a common human girl and an orc girl, my opinion would change, but that's only due to the increased strength and size of the orc child. Neither of them would have likely had any sort of training, and as such, size matters in the situation.
Just doing a little bit of devil's advocacy here.
Post by
Skreeran
The Doomhammer was said to take three humans to lift, as well.
Can you give me the citation for: A Wildhammer stormhammer is so heavy that it would take multiple humans to lift it, yet a dwarf has no problem with that. that?
And I'm almost certain that there's something about orcs being stronger than Draenei.
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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