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Ghostcrawler and the 3.3 Paladin Nerfs
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Post by
Sgtpain
I personally stopped playing my pally because I felt it was overpowered and the class in general was over populated. Any nerfs the class has comming I suggest we accept and see how people play when you actually require some planing before hand. Seriously, when your a pally you freaking feel invincible, bubble, loh, AoW healing. You can pretty much outlast anything else.
Invincible? lol I disagree. Step into arena and tell me you're invincible. Yuo are on a whole other ball field and realize there are MANY faults to the class. ok, ok, I can take out some rogues in arena, but mages, locks, hunters in some cases, almost all healing classes, will snuff a pally and all his "awsomeness". it's why the complaints always stem from BGs, usually never arena.
Post by
trademen
Wait just a minute. Didn't GC JUST say we were too offensive in 3.1? Now he is saying we're too defensive? Apparently we aren't allowed to be offensive or defensive. What about Disc priests, aren't they too defensive? lol
Sure, but disc can be more or less summed up as "defensive" by nature.. Saying that a ret pally is defensive is a different story.
It's like seeing a lawnmower win a drag race, it's doing something it's not designed to do well.
Post by
blademeld
We were given a DoT from crits, but, when it clips with another proc, you lose whatever damage was left. So, they trimmed 30% of our crit damage, and replaced it with a DoT that does a certain % over a period of time, but doesn't stack and is clipped everu time you crit, making it it technically a nerf.
It should stack... unless it's glitched.
Post by
trademen
I personally stopped playing my pally because I felt it was overpowered and the class in general was over populated. Any nerfs the class has comming I suggest we accept and see how people play when you actually require some planing before hand. Seriously, when your a pally you freaking feel invincible, bubble, loh, AoW healing. You can pretty much outlast anything else.
Invincible? lol I disagree. Step into arena and tell me you're invincible. Yuo are on a whole other ball field and realize there are MANY faults to the class. ok, ok, I can take out some rogues in arena, but mages, locks, hunters in some cases, almost all healing classes, will snuff a pally and all his "awsomeness". it's why the complaints always stem from BGs, usually never arena.
This is true, I've never been one for arenas. But can we remember for a moment that 90% of the game is not arenas? That 79/80 of it is leveling up, and knowing that you can ALWAYS kill that elite it a little much?
I'm just kind of annoyed that pallies (as they are right now), have so little fear. Seriously, when was the last time you were seriously worried while questing when you accidently grab 5-6 extra mobs? too many panic buttons, with too little in terms of penalties for using them.
Post by
153821
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
trademen
I'm just kind of annoyed that pallies (as they are right now), have so little fear. Seriously, when was the last time you were seriously worried while questing when you accidently grab 5-6 extra mobs? too many panic buttons, with too little in terms of penalties for using them.
About as often when i do the same thing on my Prot warrior, Feral Druid, Death Knight, or when i chain pull anywhere between 8 and 20 mobs at a time on my affliction lock.
And speaking of 'penalties', we are the only class that has 2 of our defensive cooldowns lock eachother out(forbearance) as well as our offensive cooldown (this one for 30 seconds). Someone could easily say this would be like Shamans wolves and shamanistic rage not be usable when sated.
By defensive abilities you mean two very low mana costing, nearly indestructable bubbles that allow the pally ample time to heal itself fully and even hearth if it feels so inclined?
There is defensive and then there is
"pally defensive"
"Look at me, I'm unkillable. I can't be killed by an attack, a spell, a dot, an enviromental effect, a fall, drowing, fatigue, or even a raid boss."
Sure we have a "penality" but it's just that we can't become completly unkillable again for a few minutes. To me that is more of a cooldown and less of a penality.
((oh, and yeah, I know bubble can be broken, but it's so unlikely that a warrior is just going to come up and shattering throw you when you are out in the world that it is not even worth mentioning...besides right now))
Post by
blademeld
5-6 mobs, even with bubble, is a large hinderance to holy and ret while leveling, it often leads to me corpse running.
Feign Death, Reincarnate, Invisibility (after a Frost Nova) are far better survival tools.
Post by
trademen
5-6 mobs, even with bubble, is a large hinderance to holy and ret while leveling, it often leads to me corpse running.
Feign Death, Reincarnate, Invisibility (after a Frost Nova) are far better survival tools.
You know, when blademeld posts I usually agree. But I really don't with this one. I've had this happen to me dozens of time (which is why I used it as an example). If you have bubble and loh (having both is what I'm complaning about) a pally of any spec could survive 5-6 extra mobs easily.
Post by
Squishalot
5-6 mobs, even with bubble, is a large hinderance to holy and ret while leveling, it often leads to me corpse running.
Feign Death, Reincarnate, Invisibility (after a Frost Nova) are far better survival tools.
You know, when blademeld posts I usually agree. But I really don't with this one. I've had this happen to me dozens of time (which is why I used it as an example). If you have bubble and loh (having both is what I'm complaning about) a pally of any spec could survive 5-6 extra mobs easily.
Soulstone. Vanish. I can't speak on behalf of other Pallies, but I certainly wouldn't mind swapping out Divine Shield for Vanish (from a Ret perspective).
At the end of the day, Divine Shield, like any other 'immune' ability, will still result in you having to deal with the mobs beating on you when it expires. Feign Death, Reincarnate, Soulstone, Vanish, you get a free ticket out.
That, and you're talking about BGs, which is meaningless. Pally can't LoH in Arena.
There is defensive and then there is "pally defensive"
As opposed to "Wheee, shield block, shield wall, oh look, shield block is back off CD already! And hey, a full rage bar!"
Paladins have always been a defensive class. If you're going to nerf something, nerf their offensive capabilities (done), or as blademeld suggested earlier, nerf Ret-specific defensive capabilities.
Consider the array of nerfs since Wrath came out.
Touched by the Light - Prots can't heal overpoweringly anymore. (Tick - not going to be worried about Prot self-healing)
Seal of Blood - reduced burst for Ret paladins (and offensive Prot ones). (Tick - burst = bad)
Shield of Righteousness - reduced burst for Prot paladins, and further reduced their already relatively reduced damage potential. (Tick - prot = defensive, not damage dealing)
Given the damage that a Ret paladin can put out, it's highly unlikely that they can three-shot someone, unless it's all in PvE gear. Certainly in equivalent level PvP gear, it would be well-nigh impossible, even against squishy Rogues and 'Locks unless the target is lying on the ground, face down and tied up, and even then it's debateable.
Post by
Sgtpain
ok, ok...so I have been doing some PvP on my rogue and mage lately and I figured something out. if I see a group of enemy players on my pally, I might think twice about attacking them, but, if I did decide to, I could get one down and probably do some decent damage to the others. I noticed on my rogue, if there are a group of enemy players and I attempted that crap, it would be insta-death.
On the other hand, my rogue has alot of tools at his disposal. In alot of cases, I find myself attempting to dismantle plate wearers, then bleed them, and vanishing if the first few attacks look bad. (and pray vanish actually freakin works!) On my pally, I can easily turn the tables on a 1v1.
BTW...locks aren't as easy as everyone says they are on a rogue. They freakin AoE stun constantly and it knocks me out of stealth or vanish every time. grrrr
Post by
123609
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
URanu5
All i have to say... ALl i have to beg for... is DONT NERF HOLY PALADINS!
it alwas happens... they try to nerf all other palys... not mentioning Holy.. yet Holy gets the short end of the stick usually >_<
Even tho the Illum nerf was needed to implement mp5 again... it still hurt me </3 QQ :(
Though if you... plus up Illum to 50% ill let u nerf almost what ever u want :) after all its best to match Divine Illum right?
Post by
pezz
SmileyTPB: The holy improvement is pretty useless for holydins using SoW. DPS won't need the mana back and Healers won't want to break their routine to dps for mana. Well, priests might wand a little bit if they have time, but that's about it.
Post by
228908
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
SmileyTPB: The holy improvement is pretty useless for holydins using SoW. DPS won't need the mana back and Healers won't want to break their routine to dps for mana. Well, priests might wand a little bit if they have time, but that's about it.
That's why they'd use Seal of Light instead? It's more for the melee DPS (the people sitting under Consecration).
Personally, the reason why I think it'd be a bad idea is that you'd Consecrate with Seal of Command in a 51/5/15 sort of build, and your melee heavy packs would cleave anything to shreds :D
Or could you imagine the sheer dottage if you used Seal of Vengeance?
You'd need to specify that the person would get back 1%/2%/3% of their maximum health while standing in the Consecration, rather than link it to a specific seal.
@ Caean: no need to take stuff out of Ardent Defender, just link it to Righteous Fury. Only allow Ardent Defender's self-res to work when under the effect of Righteous Fury. That's to avoid people from building up huge pools of threat, then turning it off to allow emergency LoH healing.
It's a pretty big nerf in PvP though - self healing isn't a big part, but it is fairly important, and Righteous Fury is pretty expensive to put up. You'd need to reduce the mana costs of stance dancing to make it fair.
Post by
pezz
SmileyTPB: The holy improvement is pretty useless for holydins using SoW. DPS won't need the mana back and Healers won't want to break their routine to dps for mana. Well, priests might wand a little bit if they have time, but that's about it.
That's why they'd use Seal of Light instead? It's more for the melee DPS (the people sitting under Consecration).
Personally, the reason why I think it'd be a bad idea is that you'd Consecrate with Seal of Command in a 51/5/15 sort of build, and your melee heavy packs would cleave anything to shreds :D
A raid full of bloodlusted Rogues and Ferals with SoC...
*Smiles and Nods at the beauty*
Post by
chase123
Pally's have taken nerf hits in every patch and expac I have played in since I started a year and a half ago.
Oh really. Where were you during 3.0?
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