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My take on Cataclysm and the Timeline
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Post by
Gnub
Heya folks. A few days ago I did a post about my idea of how the Cataclysm will change Azeroth, in terms of timeline, as I've seen alot of people wondering. As it's originally
written on my blog
, I'll copy the whole thing from there, so I don't need to drag you there to read it :P
Pretty much since World of Warcraft’s third expansion –
Cataclysm
– was released, it’s not uncommon to come across a forum post or the like that includes people that has no clue about how a storyline works in a MMO-based game, and what the difference between adding and modifying content is. What makes people so confused, is the fact that the content of the first 60 levels (of the current 80 total) is going to be redone, as the world is torn apart, as
Deathwing
enters the show, once agan. During this post, I’ll attempt to explain what my view on all of it, which should be correct as well.
When did the Cataclysm happen?
The common misunderstanding is that new content is always happening after previous content. While this is indeed true for highlevel content, it’s certainly not true for all of it. We can use a good example from each of the existing expansions to support the claims I’m going to be doing.
Burning Crusade:
Races was added, taking lore with them to explain how they joined their respective factions before or during the starting areas. As the levels progress, Emissaries are often spotted throughout the capitals, to represent that they had indeed “just” joined, and was seeking to aid their factions, in what way they can.
Wrath of the Lich King:
Death Knights, the new class, was added – champions dying at the plaguelands, meant to be raised as The Lich King’s new order of Death Knights – and joins the respective factions at the time when the Dark Portal opens, and steps into Outlands. As the Draenei and Blood Elves were part of the factions, they could naturally die at that point in the timeline alongside the other races, and be raised. They could not be fallen of the Third War (Warcraft III), as Draenei wasn’t in Azeroth at that point, and Blood Elves weren’t aligned with the Horde yet.
Now, as said, the main point is to figure out when the actual Cataclysm takes place. Since it affects the world that the first part of the content happens, people will experience it already at level 1 (the two new races even seem to have a small time of their quests before, prior to “normal” WoW timeline). They can choose to be Death Knights as well, which meant some of them died and was raised before Arthas was defeated in Icecrown, and since they had already waded through the cataclysmed world, it must’ve happened before the whole of WoW’s storyline.
To back it up, the first few sentences of the
Cataclysm Trailer
, is as follows:
As the terrible war against the Lich King continues, the proud defenders of Azeroth fight to secure a lasting peace. But there can be no peace, when the world itself is devoured by rage.
First of all, the war against the Lich King has lasted pretty much since Warcraft III. Second of all, it’s not stated if the cataclysmic event actually happens at the time where we – the heroes – fight the Lich King. He’s merely the biggest immediate threat after the Legion had been pushed back in Outlands, and removed from there.
With the time aspect covered, the obvious question pops up fast: “But what about Deathwing?”. You see, Deathwing is smart. He didn’t strike at once, as he would otherwise had to deal with the Legion and the Lich King – so he plots his plans, while we do the dirty work. On the way, we have however already crushed some of his plans: The Twilight Dragonflight (a subject I’ve discussed not
one
or
two
, but
three
times), seen over 3 notable places. First, there’s the Netherwing-area of Shadowmoon Valley. Next, the events of Night of the Dragon. Third, the death of Sartharion in the Obsidian Sanctum. With these events spanning over the Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King, while Deathwing was “hiding” below Grim Batol… further supporting that the Cataclysm must’ve happened before the final parts of the battle against the Lich King.
While all of the above is pure speculation, I’m wondering how it could be any other way, and still be presented in a believable matter. I’m surely looking forward to every small tidbit of information about it all at least.
Feedback appreciated, as always :)
Post by
Wildhorn
Here is timeline:
Old WoW -> TBC -> Cataclysm -> Wotlk
Post by
Adamsm
Heh, as always, good job Gnub.
Post by
Gnub
Here is timeline:
Old WoW -> TBC -> Cataclysm -> Wotlk
Proof, elaboration, explanation or the like - or it's empty words. How does that order even make remotely sense anyway?
Heh, as always, good job Gnub.
Cheers <3
Post by
Wildhorn
1) It is obvious Old WoW happen before Cataclysm (duh)
2) TBC have to happen before wotlk and cata because this is where BE and draenei join their faction
3) Cata happens before wotlk because there gonna be worgen/goblin DK.
Anyway, it doesnt really matter in the end because you have to see the timeline based on your character only and not for the whole population (this is how mmo with a timeline works). Stuff happens as your character progress. And you can always blame Cavern of Time for paradox. And biggest paradox imo is
Drakuru
when you kill him before helping him.
Post by
Gnub
1) It is obvious Old WoW happen before Cataclysm (duh)
2) TBC have to happen before wotlk and cata because this is where BE and draenei join their faction
3) Cata happens before wotlk because there gonna be worgen/goblin DK.
With Cataclysm there is no such thing as "Old WoW", as it
replaces
it. Also, TBC isn't just a segment of a timeline, it's two: The point where Blood Elves and Draenei joins (level 1 and onwards), and the endgame (60-70).
Anyway, it doesnt really matter in the end because you have to see the timeline based on your character only and not for the whole population (this is how mmo with a timeline works). Stuff happens as your character progress. And you can always blame Cavern of Time for paradox. And biggest paradox imo is
Drakuru
when you kill him before helping him.
It actually makes sense: Grizzly Hills happens before Zul'Drak, and the event in the dungeon happens after the second-part of the questline (which is in Zul'Drak). Nothing wrong there.
Post by
Wildhorn
With Cataclysm there is no such thing as "Old WoW", as it
replaces
it. Also, TBC isn't just a segment of a timeline, it's two: The point where Blood Elves and Draenei joins (level 1 and onwards), and the endgame (60-70).
I know there is no such thing as "old wow". My timeline was pointing out the game expensions.
It actually makes sense: Grizzly Hills happens before Zul'Drak, and the event in the dungeon happens after the second-part of the questline (which is in Zul'Drak). Nothing wrong there.
I mean when you do the 2nd part before the first part. ZD part before GH part. Very wrong.
Post by
Gnub
With Cataclysm there is no such thing as "Old WoW", as it
replaces
it. Also, TBC isn't just a segment of a timeline, it's two: The point where Blood Elves and Draenei joins (level 1 and onwards), and the endgame (60-70).
I know there is no such thing as "old wow". My timeline was pointing out the game expensions.
I lost your point completely then.
An expansion covers a period of time. Everything that happened in "Old WoW" is going to be replaced with stuff that "happened" in Cataclysm (1-60 part), alot of it is probably unchanged, but some will be changed/modified to fit the changes in the lore. The 80-85 part of Cataclysm is obviously happening after Wrath of the Lich King.
It actually makes sense: Grizzly Hills happens before Zul'Drak, and the event in the dungeon happens after the second-part of the questline (which is in Zul'Drak). Nothing wrong there.
I mean when you do the 2nd part before the first part. ZD part before GH part. Very wrong.
Well, then you're doing it in the wrong order from what it was intended. You can find a countless amount of examples for that, like killing Kael'Thas in Magister's Terrace before you see him in Tempest Keep. If you're doing Zul'Drak before doing Grizzly Hills, you're going through the zones in a different order, and naturally something will look messed up.
Post by
159189
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
129024
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Mesoforte
*cough*
But think of it like this. You have Vanilla WoW, DKs are released with TBC, right at the end of vannilla (Lore-wise). After TBC but before the Icecrown Citadel raid, Cataclysm happens.
Post by
Adamsm
Perhaps I am not understanding something...
I get the logic you're using in classes being available and all of that, but how does the landscape move from all messed up to its present form? As we clearly know what the land was like before Cataclysm (Warcraft 1, 2, 3, Vanilla WoW) but if you're claiming WOTLK occurs after Cata how does the landscape move back to its original form?
Because barely anything happens to Northrend. The only Lich King events that happen on old Azeroth are the Death Knight starter zone, and that entire area is phased over the course of a few weeks/months, so after your done there and come back to 'real' Azeroth, your entering the Cataclysm world.
Post by
Ayline
Here is the deal. Timeline goes like this:
1. 1-58 content, along with 60 raids, happens first, no matter what. While you're of these levels Arthas is around, Kael'Thas is still alive(twice apparently. XD), and and Cataclysm is occurring/occurred. This also includes anything having to do with new races, classes, zones, etc.
2. 58-68 content occurs, as well as 70 raids. We fight through Outland against the Burning Legion, we kill Illidan, Gruul, etc. This all happens after the "old world" stuff, however it is changed.
3. 68-78, 80 raids. These now occur. We kill Kel'Thuzad, Arthas, Yogg, Maly, etc.
4. 78-85, 85 raids. These are the most recent to occur. The Cataclysm has already happened and Azeroth has been changed. We are now exploring these newly opened areas, new enemies, new dungeons, etc.
So anything that happens in the highest available level is the most recent thing to happen. Things like Dalaran moving and Cataclysm happening occur before we kill Arthas and Deathwing, etc.
A simple way of thinking of it is that the level you experience the content is a mirror of the time line that it happens in. Your character is aging through the world(without visible signs) and the world changes as he goes through it. If something happens at level 19, like killing VC in Deadmines, this happens after you've already fought off hordes of Defias in Westfall around level 14-17. Yes, it's possible to kill VC before you do a single Defias killing quest, aka going in at level 13 or 14, but that's not the order Blizz intended it and so you are breaking the time-line.
Post by
Wildhorn
Yes, it's possible to kill VC before you do a single Defias killing quest, aka going in at level 13 or 14, but that's not the order Blizz intended it and so you are breaking the time-line.
Then you see 5 lvl 80 pop out of nowhere and couple black dragonflight trying to stop them, imirite? :P
Post by
kamandi
this is generally how i look at the content, but you'll mind freak yourself when you consider things like dalaran already being gone for a new toon going through the old world, as well as things like DKs in outland (i know this can sort of be explained).
in general though, i have the same mindset for this stuff as i do for comic books, don't get hung up on continuity so much that it ruins the experience. Give some slack to the storytellers for dealing with limitations.
IMO, Cataclysm occurs after icecrown (or wotlk in its entirety). Any new toons are experiencing something diferent than your current toons did. Essentially, the "vanilla/old world" is going to be replaced.
This all works fine in my mind, until you try to explain why worgen and goblins are DKs, if the only reason their races aligned with the horde/alliance was due to cataclysm events (so they weren't even in the picture till post icecrown).
Post by
Gnub
I'll put all these quotes in one post, as they share the common subject.
Perhaps I am not understanding something...
I get the logic you're using in classes being available and all of that, but how does the landscape move from all messed up to its present form? As we clearly know what the land was like before Cataclysm (Warcraft 1, 2, 3, Vanilla WoW) but if you're claiming WOTLK occurs after Cata how does the landscape move back to its original form?
They keyword is
replaced
. Cataclysm
replaces
Vanilla WoW, it's no more, or - to be blunt -
has never existed
! The Cataclysmed world is what looks like - and has always looked like - since level 1. Also, Adamsm answered your last question.
*cough*
But think of it like this. You have Vanilla WoW, DKs are released with TBC, right at the end of vannilla (Lore-wise). After TBC but before the Icecrown Citadel raid, Cataclysm happens.
No - You can't have "Vanilla WoW happened - then the Cataclysm happens". Refer to what I wrote to the above quote.
Also, I like that you refer to the correct term "RetCon", but fail to understand what it actually means. It's a MAJOR one, but what I'm explaining is exactly that - a retcon. Stuff gets
replaced
, for better and more fitting - it hasn't magically changed at year X in a timeline.
A simple way of thinking of it is that the level you experience the content is a mirror of the time line that it happens in. Your character is aging through the world(without visible signs) and the world changes as he goes through it. If something happens at level 19, like killing VC in Deadmines, this happens after you've already fought off hordes of Defias in Westfall around level 14-17. Yes, it's possible to kill VC before you do a single Defias killing quest, aka going in at level 13 or 14, but that's not the order Blizz intended it and so you are breaking the time-line.
Exactly. Dead on! My point exactly with Drakuru as posted earlier.
Post by
Gnub
Good job on a very well thought out blog, the only thing I disagree with is...
They can choose to be Death Knights as well, which meant some of them died and was raised before Arthas was defeated in Icecrown, and since they had already waded through the cataclysmed world, it must’ve happened before the whole of WoW’s storyline.
Since icecrown citadel hasn't been released yet we're not sure if the lich king is completely defeated and the scourge eradicated. So they could have died after the events of WotLK and still be raised, even by just other death knights who are already good. They would probably experience the death knight starting area just for fairness, it would suck to make a worgen/goblin DK and not get the starting quests.
Thanks, first of all :)
It's pretty certain that we will indeed defeat the Lich King, and thus end the Scourge's threat to Azeroth - but naturally that doesn't mean every single undead will collapse or vanish - they'll continue to exist.
Again, the Death Knight starting area happens before we venture to Northrend, and the Lich King still going strong. Would be rather stupid if he was dead when we started a new Death Knight, and then proceed to fight him in Northrend.... right?
Post by
NeoBlackheart
I always see It like this. Vanilla was a long time ago.. Then Burning Crusade near the very end of the burning crusade or might have been at the end of vanilla The lich king started to train the death knights. But they didn't break free untill wrath launched. cataclysm is going to start after wrath. But since the DK area is phased the Cataclysm won't affect it as the Cata hasn't happened yet. New characters are starting new heroes rise at all times and as time passes gain strenght.
SO timeline
vanilla-BC-Wrath-Cata
.......^to, ^
.......DKs are trained
Post by
136091
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
kamandi
...
There has been nothing in any of the announcements or on the official site to suggest that Cataclysm replaces the history we have now.
I don't think it will replace the old content lorewise, but like i stated earlier, if when 4.0 hits, you are level 80 in icecrown, you still killed hogger at lvl 12, you still killed vc at lvl 20, you still killed ragnoros at 60, etc... if you are lvl 30, then that is when cataclysm happened to you.
if you create a new toon after 4.0, that toon never expereinced any of the stuff that will be gone.
This all makes sense, but like i said, the place it gets sticky is for teh worgen who are still behind the wall as of 3.2.2, but as of 4.0 will suddenly have the chance to have become dk's (presumably after the lich king story is resolved). I get that it makes sense if the LK is still around, but the DK starting stuff takes place before tirion et al go to northrend, which is obviosuly way before worgen or goblins show on the scene. likely, this will jsut be an area where we have to just "let it go" for the sake of letting go.
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