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General Lore Discussions
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Post by
Rankkor
How was the start?
Between Sylvanas being the new warchief, and blood elves needing to beg to be allowed back into the very city that backstabbed them for the second time, the start of this expansion is absolute garbage as far as I'm concerned.
Who was that sunstrider girl? Why did we kill her.
Distant relative of King Anasterian, but not close enough to have a valid claim to the crown, which is why she joined Kael'thas' expedition to Northrend, hoping that if she slayed Arthas, she could bump herself up the ladder and be valid enough for queen if something were to happen to dear lil' kael. Except she died, and became a servant of the very man she was driven to kill =/
Why was she undead etc.
Same reason the blood queen was undead. Kael's expedition was decimated by Arthas, and those who couldn't flee, became the san'layn.
Why is the grand magister a member of the six?
*sighs*
The most generous interpretation I can come up with, (And this is me, being far more generous and optimistic about blizzard than I should. They seem to take extreme glee on always making sure the horde is in the wrong, the ones apologizing, the ones begging for forgiveness >_>) is that the Kirin Tor DID apologize for the Purge of Dalaran, expelled Jaina from the order because her actions were indisputably and unequivocally wrong, and to make amends, instated a representative of the blood elves into the council of six, but still chose that representative to NOT be Aethas, because regardless of his motivations, he still put the safety of a small group among the kirin tor, above the safety of the whole. Thus Rommath was chosen to be the new representative of the blood elves in the council of six.
But again, this is me being overly generous. I highly doubt it went down like that. We'll see.
What really bugs me is that the council of six is still made up almost entirely of humans. Considering that humans are most certainly NOT the only magi race in the world, the council really
should
be made from representatives of each race. An archmage from the gnomes, the dwarves, the trolls, the orcs, etc.
But heavens forbid we take away the focus from human-master-race. I mean, look at the other class halls. In almost every class where there's a human present, humans took over. Class hall for paladins? Silver Hand. Not sunwalkers, not blood knights, not vindicators, not argent crusade. Nope. Silver Hand.
Rogue Class Hall? Humans again.
Mage Class Hall? The 5-to-1 ratio on the council of six should be a hint at who's the top honcho in there.
Warlock Class Hall? Once again its a human leading it.
Pretty much the only exceptions are the Priest Class Hall (which is naaru-themed, and led by a draenei), Monk Class Hall (Themed around the pandaren) and the Hunter Class Hall (Which is very heavily tauren-themed). And of course the class halls of the classes that humans can't pick (Druid, Shaman, Demon Hunter, etc)
Because even the Warrior Class Hall, is on Valhalla, o_O complete with Valkyrs and everything. And yep, its vry'kul themed. AKA; Human ancestors.
/rant.
Post by
morginar
Isn't the hunter lodge night elven with a elven ranger order?
Also with a high elven windrunner that i want to punch in the face.
So far I see the ranger general a dark ranger , Rexxar and Hemingway.
No gnomes though. But I don't have the Greek letter Legion. So I might missed some things.
Post by
Rankkor
Its located in Highmountain, and all hunters belong to a new hunter faction called "The Unseen Path" which seems to be Highmountain-tauren in origin.
There are gnome hunters in there though. Their names reflect their quality xD
Like Practicus, and Nearmiss.
Post by
morginar
Emmarel Shadewarden <Unseen Path> - Class: Hunter, Mission: A Strong Right Hand, Zone: Trueshot Lodge
Emmarel Shadewarden was a young Sentinel when the Unseen Path was founded. Like her mentor, Namuria Gladesong, Emmarel believed that the night elves had a duty to protect Azeroth from the inevitable return of the Legion. After her order was all but wiped out in the War of the Shifting Sands, Emmarel kept the Unseen Path small and secluded, watching for the day when it should rise again.$b$bDuring the long years of her vigil, Emmarel studied the ways of the beast master. She is never far from the wings of her beloved eagle companion, Snowfeather. From
http://www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=250014
Post by
cephadex
I’m only stopping by to see Rankkor’s reaction to
Rommath actually taking a seat in the Council of Six in Legion. Heck, I know I was pissed off and I’m not even Rankkor.
Distant relative of King Anasterian, but not close enough to have a valid claim to the crown, which is why she joined Kael'thas' expedition to Northrend, hoping that if she slayed Arthas, she could bump herself up the ladder and be valid enough for queen if something were to happen to dear lil' kael. Except she died, and became a servant of the very man she was driven to kill =/
You mean, Mary-Sue Sunstrider? BS if you ask me, he was explicitly stated as being the last of his bloodline, and that includes relatives who "don't qualify for the throne." So much gratuitous retconning and rehashing that it's starting to feel dirty.
Post by
Rankkor
I’m only stopping by to see Rankkor’s reaction to
Rommath actually taking a seat in the Council of Six in Legion. Heck, I know I was pissed off and I’m not even Rankkor.
Distant relative of King Anasterian, but not close enough to have a valid claim to the crown, which is why she joined Kael'thas' expedition to Northrend, hoping that if she slayed Arthas, she could bump herself up the ladder and be valid enough for queen if something were to happen to dear lil' kael. Except she died, and became a servant of the very man she was driven to kill =/
You mean, Mary-Sue Sunstrider? BS if you ask me, he was explicitly stated as being the last of his bloodline, and that includes relatives who "don't qualify for the throne." So much gratuitous retconning and rehashing that it's starting to feel dirty.
When they referred to him as being the last of his bloodline, they meant his direct bloodline. AKA: He had no sons or daughters, no brothers or sisters, and no father or mother, that were still alive at the time of his death.
He could still have had cousins, and distant relatives. Also, just because someone bears the name Sunstrider doesn't mean they share the bloodline. Its possible Lynara was a political relative (She married into the family, rather than be born into it)
Rommath actually taking a seat in the Council of Six in Legion. Heck, I know I was pissed off and I’m not even Rankkor.
I'm not really bothered by it. I was actually expecting that. Even though Aethas was NOT involved in the theft of the bell, he still had demonstrated to be unfit to hold his position, as there were not one, but two double agents working under his nose, and in a moment of crucial emergency, he demonstrated a bias for his people, by choosing to protect the lives of his fellow elves, rather than the kirin tor as a whole. Understandable, but not acceptable.
I have no problem with others pointing out his failings as a leader, what I am upset about is him having to apologize and beg for forgiveness. Particularly when other alliance leaders have had similar failures under their belts and they've never apologized to anyone. Where was the apology from the church of stormwind for having benedictus being the twilight father? Bleh, whatever, we're getting offtopic.
The point is, I expected Aethas to not re-take his position as a member of the council of six, so the next logical choice would be Rommath.
What I wasn't prepared to see, was Rommath just standing there like a statue, all quiet, as the rest of the council of six chew out Aethas, call him a traitor, and demand he kneels and apologizes and begs for forgiveness.
Come on, that right there is BS, and doesn't fit his character
at all
. This is the guy who stood up to Sylvanas when Lor'themar cowered and bowed. This is the guy who chose to turn his back on his best friend (Kael) when he realized he had no longer the best interests of his people at hand. There's no way he'd stay quiet as Aethas was being chewed on for doing something EVERYONE in his place would do. Put any leader in Aethas' place and every single one of them worth their salt would prioritize the safety of their people above anyone and anything else.(##RESPBREAK##)520##DELIM##Rankkor##DELIM##
Post by
cephadex
I don’t think that’s what they were saying, because the point of saying he’s the last of his bloodline was to indicate to players that now there are no Sunstriders left, and Quel’thalas had moved from being ruled by a royal to a different sort of leadership. There would have been no point in saying he was the last of his bloodline if what they had meant was ‘yeah but we just mean no heirs, he has a bunch of other relatives,’ because then ‘last of his bloodline’ has little significance. The idea that “oh, but Mary-Sue Sunstrider has no claim to the throne so that’s why it still stands that Kael was last of his bloodline” was something Bliz came up with now as to justify having her in the questline; but I suspect that most likely you just think ‘oh a cute female BE’ so you probably don’t mind that she was badly retconned and the whole idea is just awful storytelling.
Gosh, you know, we just disagree on so many things in regard to the other bit I brought up that it occurred to me I shouldn’t have started this discussion, I’m sorry.
Post by
Rankkor
Gosh, you know, we just disagree on so many things in regard to the other bit I brought up that it occurred to me I shouldn’t have started this discussion, I’m sorry.
Technically speaking, we're not disagreeing here :P I'm just conjecturing. At this point we don't know the whole context of the quest, and as is the case with anything in alpha/beta, its subject to change before going live.
I was simply musing that its possible to be the last of the bloodline, and still have other people carry the name (Such as a political relative, who doesn't have sunstrider blood, but still has the name because they married into the family, or were adopted. There's also the possibility of bastard children being legitimized by anyone with sufficient authority in order to put someone on the crown.)
but I suspect that most likely you just think ‘oh a cute female BE’ so you probably don’t mind that she was badly retconned and the whole idea is just awful storytelling.
*sighs*
I'm very sadnened this is what you think of me U_U
What she looks like, or what race she is has nothing to do with anything. I'm not shallow enough to get swayed by a character just because they're cute. I have a very VERY low regard and respect for Sylvanas, even though she's undeniably one of the most sexualized character in this game next to Aleztrasza. And I don't think I need to remind anyone just how high Jaina is on my personal "I want you dead" list, even though she is also THE most beautiful woman in the alliance.
I like or dislike a character based on far more than appearance alone. In terms of design, Varian is easily the coolest character in the game, with the coolest looking armor, and coolest looking weapons ever designed in warcraft. Do I also think the character is also cool? not even close. I absolutely hated him during WOTLK. And I'm more or less indifferent to him these days because in order to make him more likable, they basically dumped almost all his negative traits on the female cast in the alliance.
To be honest, Lyandra's role in the story is so microscopically small, I honestly wouldn't even care if she was male or female, since she only shows up once, dies, and then never gets mentioned again.
and Quel’thalas had moved from being ruled by a royal to a different sort of leadership.
This is actually something of an odd case. Because the only reason the blood elves have not crowned a new king, was because Kael'thas declared that King Anasterian would be the last king of Silvermoon (indicating that Kael himself never intended to take the throne either). After his death, you'd think this decree would be void, but Lor'themar has respected the decree, in no small part because he doesn't wish to start his own dynasty either. In order for the blood elves to have a new King, I'd wager Lor'themar would have to die, and his successor would need to have enough ambition, connections, and pedigree to start their own royal family.
They're at an impasse though, because Lor'themar is a king in all but name. Unlike Ironforge who has a senate, I don't think there's any legislation done in Silvermoon.
If anything, a better example of a civilization in wow that moved from a royal family to a different form of leadership were the Pandaren, since after Shao-Hao, nobody else rose to the position of Emperor, and each village/clan is ruled by an independent elder.(##RESPBREAK##)520##DELIM##Rankkor##DELIM##
Post by
355559
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
There was a tweet by dave kosak. I can try to find it.
Basically, there was a scene that they were supposed to implement that never made it live due to a bug.
The Sunreavers
as a whole
were innocent of the theft of the bell, but they did have a few couple of double-agents on the inside that facilitated the theft of the bell, by linking the portal made by the Reliquary elves, through the dalaran portal network.
Aethas caught this as it was happening and tried to stop it, but the orc envoy with the double-agents warned him that if he prevented the theft, Garrosh would execute every single elf in pandaria (Which was pretty much the entire military force of Silvermoon). Thus Aethas was forced to choose between facing the wrath of garrosh for preventing the theft, or the wrath of Jaina for allowing it. He chose Jaina hoping she'd be more reasonable. At the very least, if she wasn't, the losses for the blood elves would still be less than what angering garrosh would have wrought considering there were far less elves in dalaran than there were in pandaria.
So there =/ 99% of the sunreavers weren't involved with the theft, and even Aethas himself wasn't involved either, though he was aware of it, and chose to look the other way to prevent an elf massacre (Which ended up happening anyways)
This was confirmed by both Dave Kosak, and Sarah Pine.
Here's
the first tweet by Kosak that sparked the discussion. However, the interview with Sarah Pine that added the rest of the context is nowhere to be found =/ the link provided through her tumblr account seems to have expired.
Here's
the main article on wowpedia:
Aethas Sunreaver was supposed to have a larger role in the bell's heist, stumbling across the player after the deed was done, admonishing the Horde for using Kirin Tor resources in the war effort, then being threatened by an orc into saying nothing about it. With Garrosh's wrath on one side and Jaina's on another, Aethas would have to gamble on one of them, choosing to risk Jaina's. After a conversation with Dave Kosak on the subject, Blizzard writer Sarah Pine stated that this scene actually was supposed to play out in the game, but was bugged. This, too, is referenced in later content: Aethas shifts uncomfortably when Lor'themar champions his innocence on the Isle of Thunder; this casts doubt about his loyalties, when it should have been affirmation to the player of what they would already know (that Aethas discovered the theft, but was not an active participant in it).
Even though it wasn't implemented on the game, its still considered canon, hence its reference in 5.2 with Aethas' infamous nervous shift.
Post by
355559
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
Freaking awkward handling from Blizzard
Sadly the same can be said about the entirety of Warlords of Draenor. Really atrocious storytelling at its worst. Look at the debacle over who leads the orcs. No orc leader ingame. When asked about it, one blue poster (I believe it was Bashiok) said it was either Saurfang, or Eitrigg, but he's not sure. Cue Saurfang showing up on Draenor without any sort of tag describing him as the orc chieftain, and then the orc page on the official wow website describing the orcs as officially leaderless.
Its like watching a two-headed ogre arguing with itself.
More recently, General Tiras'alan showed up on the Paladin Class Hall on the Legion Alpha, even though the bloke died during the siege of Theramore. That's just one out of many examples of poor handling of the lore, and all the many characters involved. I suppose its not entirely their fault, this game has enough major and minor characters to fill a small country, but come on!!! a cohesive story team to proof-read everything isn't THAT hard to set up.(##RESPBREAK##)520##DELIM##Rankkor##DELIM##
Post by
Rankkor
http://imgur.com/a/fbHvD
*
drool
*
Warrior Class Hall looks SOOOOOO pretty.
I'm almost tempted to reroll as warrior just for that. Almost.
Post by
355559
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Behelich
They better give the warriors some silver spray paint.
Post by
Rankkor
/rolls-eyes
Looks like Sylvanas is gonna be hooking up with Nathanos Blightcaller.
What is it with the windrunner sisters and their common infatuation with humans? Is like they're all too good to settle on elves.(##RESPBREAK##)520##DELIM##Rankkor##DELIM##
Post by
Adamsm
Meh, that's been around since Vanilla.
Post by
Rankkor
Meh, that's been around since Vanilla.
Really? I must have missed it, as far as I knew, she was his master, he was her apprentice, and the first and only human to be accepted into the Farstriders, other that that, their relationship seemed strictly business, with Nathanos becoming her champion once they were both undead.
Post by
Adamsm
Meh, that's been around since Vanilla.
Really? I must have missed it, as far as I knew, she was his master, he was her apprentice, and the first and only human to be accepted into the Farstriders, other that that, their relationship seemed strictly business, with Nathanos becoming her champion once they were both undead.
There were references to it being more then that...though, those may have been out of the RPG books.
Post by
Behelich
So it looks like Anduin Lothar won't be the only dead badass in Valhalla. Squee!
Cairne Bloodhoof
- Added in patch 7.0.1
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