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Post by
Adamsm
Interesting watch.
(Okay so it's Starcraft but hey)
Post by
oneforthemoney
Here's something I've been considering for a while now. If not for our arrival in the timeline, do you think the Iron Horde could have conquered Draenor? More specifically, do you think they could have beaten even an inevitable invasion of the Legion? Though the Iron Horde could have been considered the main antagonists to Warlords, some of the subtler menaces could potentially have been of far greater consequence if left unchecked, namely what Gul'Dan was up to.
Post by
355559
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Atik
It really is hard to say for sure.
I mean, in my heart, I want to say they could have won. They had Gul'Dan and the Shadow Council imprisoned, they were making progress to align with the Ogres, the Gronn were broken, and it seems that without us, the Frostwolves and Draenei would have been defeated. The Legion just didn't have a good point to attack from, save the Sargerai, who would have been quite small in number.
But, then I actually step back, and I look at the Iron Legion. And I realize how full of bull^&*! they were. Only Tanaan Jungle was really under their control in any manner. They were fighting battles on every other front; against Draenei, Arrokoa, and even other Orcs. I mean, would the Iron Horde have even stood a chance against the High Arrokoa and their death lasers?
And then you take into account that the air forces of the Iron Horde were absolute ass-tier, and it just starts to crumble.
Post by
Behelich
Does it state anywhere how exactly did all the Illidari forces cross over from the Outland to Azeroth and went all the way to Northrend in the end of the Third War?
Post by
Rankkor
Nope, in fact they didn't use the dark portal, that's for sure, since it lay dormant until Kazaak opened it during TBC.
But then again, creating portals between time and space seems to be remarkably easy. In the draenei starting zone, the Sunhawk blood elves made not one, not two, but THREE portals into azeroth from draenor to keep pummeling the draenei in their starting zone. So its not impossible that Illidan just created portals at his whim to cross over from world to world.
Both Illidan, Kael, and Vashj were remarkable sorcerers on their own right.
I mean if they could open a portal from the Dalaran Ruins into Outland, then they can totally make a portal from Outland into whatever part of Azeroth they need.
As for your question oneforthemoney, The Iron Horde is the most pathetic excuse for an antagonist we've ever had. Those idiots couldn't have conquered their own backyard, let alone draenor, even less Azeroth.
Think about this for a moment: the original horde subjugated the draenei in a completely one-sided war right from the start. The draenei just suffered loss after loss, their only minor victory when the elements abandoned the shaman in the middle of a battle. Other than that, it was a smooth campaign of extermination.
Now look here. The arakkoa haven't fallen, the draenei haven't fallen, the ogres are allies rather than slaves, the primals are unchecked and unconquered, and clans could even have the luxury of openly defying the iron horde.
It was established that by the time we arrived on Draenor, the Iron Horde had already existed for a whooping TWO YEARS. And in Two years the only zone that was firmly in their grasp was Tanaan Jungle.
Frostfire Ridge still had a large presence of unconquered primals, unruly ogres, and defiant frostwolves.
Gorgrond had the seat of power of the blackrocks but it also had nearly 80% of the zone as a warzone between the primals and the botani.
Talador was only partially conquered, if it weren't for our intervention MAYBE there wouldn't be the shadow council to deal with, but there'd still be arakkoa to deal with, and again, ogres.
Arak was firmly arakkoa land. Only a tiny section up north was under orc control. The rest of the area was split three-way between the cult of seethe, the cult of rhukmar, and the fungus thingies to the south.
Shadowmoon was 50-50 draenei and shadowmoon clan. Without us, this part would have eventually fallen, as shown in Velen's vision, so credit to the iron horde, they could have gotten ONE victory if it were't for us. Hurray. (On Frostfire, they could have beaten the frostwolves, assuring near control of the area, but there were still primals, and ogres)
And lastly Nagrand, arguably the second zone where they had the most control, with 2 clans living there, but also sharing it with the ogres (rather than dominating them as it happened in the original timeline)
Ok, speculating time now: so without us messing their plans, they definitely could have gotten shadowmoon on their pockets, conquered most of frostfire, they were working on an artifact to take control over the botani and primals, but that's it.
The Arakkoa were their biggest menace and they had nothing against them. With their laser sky beam, how the hell could they beat them? Sure,
we
beat them but we had to gain the favor of several
demigods
to do it, and I highly doubt the iron horde could have done the same, given how they had zero intention of helping the arakkoa, lowborn or otherwise.
As mentioned above, their air forces sucked big time, and their technology just doesn't compete with the mechanical golems and lazer-beamz of the arakkoa.
They also did not conquer the ogres, just entered into an alliance of convenience, and their king was working on increasing his power. That alliance, at least how I saw it, would not be able to last long.
I can imagine that the original horde never defeated the arakkoa either, they just left them be while they conquered the rest of draenor, and eventually when the planet exploded, the kingdom of the highborn went away with it.
In conclusion:
Maybe
they could have gotten control of the planet, but at a great cost for themselves, leaving them very weak to oppose anyone. Legion or otherwise.
Post by
morginar
Should also add that the shadowmoon was moving into a path of darkness. Meaning they would be void-corrupted and possibly turn rogue on the iron horde.
Blackhand was the heart of the iron horde, I doubt he did not have a plan to make himself warchief. In the MU he was power hungry. Thats why Gul'dan made him warchief. And Grom is a teribad warchief. He is bound alone to make errors.
As for the primals/breakers... Without us they would get those titan deus ex machinima and be able to control them.
It's possible that soccrethar would gain further influence as the war against the orcs go on. Forcing the hand of the draenei into the legion. Possibly becoming the gul'dan 2.0.
And the arakkoa have superior aerial fighting force and "sky fire" deathsun lazor. I don't think the iron horde is able to combat them.
The impeditor will regain his independence when the time is right.
The iron horde might be able to win portions of draenor, but it will not be a long term victory.
And PS: In the MU the horde shattered into infighting due no common enemy to unite the horde, good thing MU Medivh gave Gul'dan a invitation to Azeroth.
I mean if they could open a portal from the Dalaran Ruins into Outland, then they can totally make a portal from Outland into whatever part of Azeroth they need.
That was due to a rift in space caused by Kel'thuzad summoning Archimonde from Draenor. Though one could possibly use it for a proxy. Bit like the fire signal in lord of the rings. But with portals. It's possible this is how we made portals from AU draenor to MU Azeroth. Using the rift from the dark portal. (It doesn't close when you blow up the statues. They tried that in wc2 I think)
Post by
Adamsm
Trailer
I...I've got no words, the trailer for the Warcraft movie looks horrible. I didn't see Khadgar anywhere, it looks like they are doing a pathetic romance plot between Lothar and Garona, no real sight of Blackhand running around....and for @#$% sakes, putting what I'm guessing is Thrall in a basket in the river, yeah like there isn't enough stuff about him being the messiah already /shake head
Also...yeah not sparking the interest that much.
Post by
355559
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
morginar
Well, it has Sylvanas, thats cool (cuz she doesn't have bodyheat). And a crashing gnome skyship for once. And king of chinns looks like rambo.
Notice that Sylvanas saved the king from a infernal (what a noob). totes mega backstabber evul lich queen. And her motives to come there doesn't look like they have to do with vrykul. I guess she doesn't like demons cuz of wrathgate.
Post by
Adamsm
I don't mind retcons Light...but when it looks like they removed two of the biggest influences on the First War(Medvih and Khadgar) as well as apparently leaving out Gul'dan and Ner'zhul, kinda peeves me off.
Post by
Rankkor
Trailer
I...I've got no words, the trailer for the Warcraft movie looks horrible.
Really? I thought it looked pretty decent. Honestly my main concern is that it will portray the orcs as yet again generic baddies. Even though they've said several times this wouldn't be the case, considering how they've failed to portray orcs as honorable in the game, I have my reservations of them pulling it off in the movie.
I didn't see Khadgar anywhere
He's there (Links below) but even if he wasn't, you gotta remember that they can't show everyone. Honestly, warcraft has a list of characters long enough to make Game of Thrones look nervious, unless you devote to show the faces of each for 2 seconds, and make a trailer of nothing but 2 seconds of faces, there's never gonna be enough time to show everyone. Khadgar wasn't shown at all in the cinematic intro for Warlords, and that didn't mean he had a small role in the story.
it looks like they are doing a pathetic romance plot between Lothar and Garona
I saw no romantic vibe between them. She's in a cage and he looks at her face. That can easily be an interrogation if nothing else.
no real sight of Blackhand
Mascara Blackhand finds your lack of attention...... disturbing.
and for @#$% sakes, putting what I'm guessing is Thrall in a basket in the river, yeah like there isn't enough stuff about him being the messiah already /shake head
To be fair, as much as people love to compare him to Jesus, Thrall has always been pretty much Warcraft's equivalent of Moses. Think about it, his story already is word for word the exact same as Moses'.
Separated from his parents at birth, raised by the nobility of the people who enslaved his, dark circumstances forced him to flee, came back and liberated his people from the ones who oppressed them, guided by a divine force that had been forgotten by most, led them across a sea to a new land where they could thrive.
That right there describes in a nutshell the entire story of both Thrall and Moses. Him being put in a basket fits. And besides I find that more easier to believe than his parents getting cut down by assassins, and him surviving for days without getting eaten or dying of starvation/exposure until blackmoore finds him.
I don't mind retcons Light...but when it looks like they removed two of the biggest influences on the First War(Medvih and Khadgar) as well as apparently leaving out Gul'dan and Ner'zhul, kinda peeves me off.
Several things:
Medivh is gonna be there, he has an actor confirmed and everything (Ben Foster). He spoke a bit in blizzcon, but said he wasn't allowed to say much because spoilers. (Specifically, he described his character as "isolated" but was told not to say more)
Khadgar is there too.
You just blinked too fast :P
(He too has a confirmed actor: Ben Schnetzer)
Gul'dan is also there too, with an actor confirmed as well (Daniel Wu). He even mentioned how he had to be squatting and hunched during the entire filming because gul'dan has a horrible posture Sure, he wasn't shown in the trailer, but that doesn't mean he's left out. (more on this later)
And lastly Ner'zhul, you do realize this takes place during the first war. The first war during which ner'zhul sat out entirely as he lay languishing in Draenor feeling sorry for himself. As it is I'm surprised Durotan is having such a strong presence considering he was also another who sat out of the first war entirely.
More proof
(Figurines from the movie. You can clearly see blackhand, Young!Khadgar, Gul'dan, Llane, what I assume is Durotan, and Garona)
Finally, I'm glad the trailer showed us things, but didn't overdo it and showed us
too much
. I am so sick of trailers spoiling the crap out of every movie. You don't need to include EVERYTHING in a piece of advertisement, leave some surprises for the audiences.
Look at the trailer for the next Star Wars movie. Only one villain has been shown (Kylo Ren) with the rest getting either only split-second glances (Captain Phasma) or being left out entirely, like
the main antagonist of the movie
(Supreme Commander Snoke)
Just because they weren't left out, or they weren't shown properly doesn't mean they wont be there or will have a couple of scenes.
The Warcraft Trailer focused mainly on Lothar, Llane, Garona, Durotan, Orgrim, and another human I can't quite recognize. That doesn't mean anyone not shown is gonna be absent or have a cameo at best.
Currently this is the main cast of the movie as revealed thus far(Not including extras, or people with very minor roles):
Ben Foster as Medivh
Travis Fimmel as Anduin Lothar
Toby Kebbell as Durotan
Dominic Cooper as King Llane Wrynn
Paula Patton as Garona Halforcen
Robert Kazinsky as Orgrim Doomhammer
Daniel Wu as Gul'dan
Clancy Brown as Blackhand the Destroyer
Ben Schnetzer as Khadgar
Ruth Negga as Taria Wrynn
There's also all of these actors who have major roles in the movie, but not disclosed yet: Dennis Haysbert, Felicity Jones, Svetlana Khodchenkova, Burkely Duffield, and Hiroyuki Sanada.
Post by
Rankkor
Different post for different trailer:
Man, it seems like it was yesterday that we were talking about the cinematic for WoD. Yet here we are, 14 months later, talking about the cinematic for Legion.
Visually it was cool, as always, but bleh, Varian has never been, nor will he ever be, among my favorite characters, so a cutscene devoted entirely to him didn't really do much for me. They could have had Sylvanas deliver at least ONE sarcastic quip at him when he shoots that infernal =/ (Like: "You owe me one now little wolf cub")
Also, Sylvanas saved Varian's life.
Sylvanas prolonged Varian's Life.
Sylvanas prevented the death of Varian. (AKA: the second man who wants her dead the most)
Sylvanas rescued Varian from his demise.......
Nope, no matter how I phrase it, it still sounds weird O_o(##RESPBREAK##)520##DELIM##Rankkor##DELIM##
Post by
Adamsm
And besides I find that more easier to believe than his parents getting cut down by assassins, and him surviving for days without getting eaten or dying of starvation/exposure until blackmoore finds him.It was a day at the most, as the bodies were still fresh when Blackmoore and his group found them.
The Warcraft Trailer focused mainly on Lothar, Llane, Garona, Durotan, Orgrim, and another human I can't quite recognize. That doesn't mean anyone not shown is gonna be absent or have a cameo at best.Yet, what is the point of showing so much of Garona without Medivh and Khadgar since she spent most of her time with them...leaving out the most important Garona item too, you know the whole spy for Gul'dan.
I saw no romantic vibe between them. She's in a cage and he looks at her face. That can easily be an interrogation if nothing else.No, she's behind bars yet Lothar seems to have no problem standing that close to her to stare in her eyes /gag
In other words, I'd rather have the important people of the First War shown; they don't have to show everyone, but come on! Khadgar and Medivh are two of the most important characters and leaving them out makes me worried their parts will be cut down for things that aren't as important as the roles they played. I know that most of what happened in the Last Guardian is going to be left out, but the one scene from the trailer where it looks Durotan and Lothar are meeting up due to Garona just made me groan out loud because you know that just like every other cliche Doomhammer and Blackhand will crash the meeting and everyone will blame every one else.
Also Rank...as you said, this is the First War, when the Demon Blood had it's tightest hold on the Orcs due to the Shadow Council; if they aren't the 'bad' guys I'll be severely disappointed since that was the entire point: The Orcs won the First War due to the sheer brutality and viciousness when they destroyed Stormwind....and if they leave out how Llane dies, as well as Doomhammer's beat down of Blackhand and the Shadow Council, I'll know that Blizzard has given up.
As for the Legion trailer...maybe the actions of Sylvanas means that whole stupid plot tumour in War Crimes never happened.
Post by
Rankkor
The Warcraft Trailer focused mainly on Lothar, Llane, Garona, Durotan, Orgrim, and another human I can't quite recognize. That doesn't mean anyone not shown is gonna be absent or have a cameo at best.Yet, what is the point of showing so much of Garona without Medivh and Khadgar since she spent most of her time with them...leaving out the most important Garona item too, you know the whole spy for Gul'dan.
Upon a second viewing of the trailer, I've arrived to a different conclusion:
The long-haired skinny dude that everyone seems to assume is Lothar? I don't think that's him. Lothar has been from day one portrayed as a total behemoth of a man. And that guy is way too skinny for that. Me, I'm putting my money on
this guy
being lothar, as he looks FAR MORE to look the part.
Here's
another pic of him from the trailer.
Also, Lothar had ZERO sympathy for the orcs in the first war, it was Llane and Khadgar who ever saw them as anything other than beasts to kill. Notice how that same guy I linked above, in the trailer (at 1:24) he's asked "can we trust them?" (The orcs) to which he says "they're beasts..... they should all be destroyed". THAT is whom I believe to be Lothar. He looks the part. He's tall, buff, with a grim expression on the face (rather than the more goofy and lighthearted expression that the long-haired skinny dude has)
Which means Garona in all her scenes in the trailer, is with Khadgar, who actually shouldn't have white hair or look old since that's supposed to happen at the very end of the first war, and thus not something they'd spoil on a trailer.
In other words, I'd rather have the important people of the First War shown; they don't have to show everyone, but come on! Khadgar and Medivh are two of the most important characters and leaving them out makes me worried their parts will be cut down for things that aren't as important as the roles they played.
I can understand that, but look at what happens in trailers of movies where they show the main bad guy in detail: They spoil the plot. I was REALLY pissed off that they gave away the biggest twist in Terminator Salvation, and this is one of the main reasons why I'm so glad Snoke isn't shown whatsoever in the Star Wars trailer. It's also why I'm glad medivh isn't shown here either.
But make no mistake, his role in the movie is not small. Not only is his actor arguably the biggest profile one of the entire cast, he's also billed first on the cast list.
Also Rank...as you said, this is the First War, when the Demon Blood had it's tightest hold on the Orcs due to the Shadow Council; if they aren't the 'bad' guys I'll be severely disappointed since that was the entire point: The Orcs won the First War due to the sheer brutality and viciousness when they destroyed Stormwind....and if they leave out how Llane dies, as well as Doomhammer's beat down of Blackhand and the Shadow Council, I'll know that Blizzard has given up.
Not necessarily. Events in this movie wont go 100% as canon lore dictates. The fact that Durotan participates at all, and even meets Khadgar (yes, I insist that skinny shorty lanky little dude can't possibly be Lothar) is sufficient proof that this continuity isn't the same as ours. Also, as you may have undoubtedly noticed, the orcs may not even have drank at all the blood, considering almost everyone is brown, even while on azeroth. (on the main continuity, all orcs except the Maghar and Mok'nathal were already green. Those that drank were vibrant green with glowing red eyes, those that did not were a pale green with normal eyes. I saw not one person with red eyes, not even Blackhand himself)
Which means they don't HAVE to be the bad guys. They can just as easily be manipulated by someone else into their actions.
Also, upon a closer inspection, Gul'dan DOES show up on the trailer. Durotan gives him one hell of a sucker punch at 1:29
Also: spoilers
http://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screenshots/normal/488328.jpg
:P
Is that Llane with the knife on his back? I believe it is. Wasn't Khadgar the one who found him like that?(##RESPBREAK##)520##DELIM##Rankkor##DELIM##
Post by
Adamsm
Can't be young Trust...since you know, Khadgar was all of 17 when the War started and was clean shaven as a baby's bottom till Medivh stole years from him. Also, Khadgar is described as being blond not dark haired. I also don't think the gun wielder is Lothar either. And no, Lothar found Llane dead...and that picture just makes it more obvious that it is Lothar and not Trust or Medivh, especially as Khadgar was only in his wizard robes and didn't wear any armour during the First War.
But honestly, the trailer still looks horrible to me and I don't have any real expectations of the movie(not that I did in the first place). They should have went with a full CGI movie rather then the Avatar route; my own opinion but Blizzard's own CGI looks a thousand times better then the Orc mocap.
Post by
Rankkor
Meh, I thought it was okay. But I almost spat my water at my screen when I saw "Mascara Blackhand". He looks SO silly with that excessive eyeliner xD
Post by
oneforthemoney
You're just jealous he can find the time to make and apply his make up in the post apocalyptic hell that is Draenor.
Post by
Rankkor
Can't take longer than tying up 2 rylak skulls next to his shoulder-pads every day. Because only sissies wear 1 set of shoulder-pads. Real men put Shoulder-Pads on their Shoulder-pads.
Post by
Rankkor
Ner'zul
is that you? I think you are. Ohh yes you are.
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