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General Lore Discussions
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Post by
oneforthemoney
Not on a pedestal, but admit that Blizz actually handled his character much better than they did Thrall of late.
Post by
cephadex
I actually agree that orcs were presented as 'bad guys' in the earlier WC games, or at least that's the feeling I'd always got, and that afterward bliz tried (and not exactly succeeded) to 'even things out.' If this is something people grossly disagree on, just disregard this because I don't feel that strongly about it.
Rankkor, I think sometimes there's a discrepancy between what I say and the way you read it, like you're so hyped to respond to certain lines of thinking you've seen before that you don't stop to consider whether that line of thinking was actually what I said.
Not on a pedestal, but admit that Blizz actually handled his character much better than they did Thrall of late.
Thrall 'of late' has felt like Worf toward the end of ST:TNG, but I think I've been on enough about how and why he bugs me.
Post by
morginar
Not on a pedestal, but admit that Blizz actually handled his character much better than they did Thrall of late.
That I admit. Though Thrall feels more like a character than tirion who feels like a plot device. Though needless to say the Go'el character is handled horribly.
Post by
matheus314
Thrall was cataclysm's equivalent of Tirion, and should be treated the same, both by the creators, and by the fanbase. But given that the fanbase HAVE NOT treated Thrall the way they did for Tirion, why should the creators do so?
Because the creators
should
be reasonable, while the fanbase (as a whole) will almost never be.
They went too far on Thrall. He did fine on Cataclysm, in my opinion, and later on MoP saw the mistakes he made with Garrosh and rushed to fix them. That should be his end of story. When Tirion helped saving the world against the Lich King and "retired" from the Alliance to lead a neutral faction related to what he has done, so should Thrall needed to "retire" himself from the Horde to deal with his main interest, keep Azeroth's elements in harmony as the World-Shaman, leader of the Earthen Ring.
But no, he has to keep leading the Horde on Draenor. Because... Metzen.
Post by
Rankkor
Thrall was cataclysm's equivalent of Tirion, and should be treated the same, both by the creators, and by the fanbase. But given that the fanbase HAVE NOT treated Thrall the way they did for Tirion, why should the creators do so?
They went too far on Thrall. He did fine on Cataclysm, in my opinion, and later on MoP saw the mistakes he made with Garrosh and
rushed to fix them
. That should be his end of story.
But that's the thing, he wasn't able to fix them. He was
about
to fix them swiftly and without the BS, but King Chin just had to have a pissing match and stopped what should had been a prompt execution for what was clearly a war criminal, a dictator, and a deranged madman who would not only never see the error of his ways, would also never change, or improve upon his mistakes.
Since his mistake was not fixed, he travelled to draenor to personally end Garrosh, and now that his story with him has come full circle and it ends right were it began, I honestly think his chapter has come to a close.
But no, he has to keep
leading
the Horde on Draenor. Because... Metzen.
See? that's where you're wrong.
Thrall is not leading jack squat. He went to draenor to help against the iron horde, and because his honor demanded he fixed his mistake with garrosh, but he's not in charge of anything at all, much in the same way Maraad isn't leading anything either. Nor is he stealing the spotlight since you can count his lines and appereances in the whole leveling experience with a single hand. Shows up as a background character (just one among many) on tanaan, shows up briefly at the start and end of Frostfire, shows up again briefly on Nagrand, and that's it. A whooping total of THREE times. And in neither is he leading anything, he's just helping with the fight.
The one calling the shots is Kadghar, who leads the combined horde-alliance efforts (and its him who does everything and does all the talking on the tanaan intro). And the ones leading the Horde Forces are us, the players, who during the course of this expansion get promoted to Generals. Same for the alliance, the one in charge of the alliance forces are the players, and both Maraad, and
Thrall report to you as their superior officer
, not the other way around.
The "leaders" of the whole resistence against the iron horde are:
Leading the native horde allies in draenor: Durotan.
Leading the native alliance allies in draenor: Yrel.
Leading the Azerothian horde forces in draenor: The player.
Leading the Azerothian alliance forces in draenor: The player.
Leading all of the above: Kadghar.
For the love of god, give Metzen a break, sheesh, its like whatever the guy does, he just can't win. He voices more than just thrall, and need I remind you that his other voiced character (Varian) has gotten just as much attention and Mary-sueneess when it comes to being undefeatable as thrall is?(##RESPBREAK##)520##DELIM##Rankkor##DELIM##Derp, I keep forgetting that the cussing filter doesn't work for the staff members.
also lol at moderating myself xD
None is above the law >=(
Post by
matheus314
I think Thrall's mistake was fixed. His mistake was putting him to lead the Horde. And that Garrosh is no more. Now he's a rogue villain. He should've washed his hands about it, let the Horde deal with it and go play elemental farmville.
Also, sorry for my choice of words, I didn't meant "leading" as the single leader of the Horde in there, but as "member of the leadership", because as I argued before, he should've took the 'Tirion's Retirement Plan' a long time ago.
Post by
Rankkor
I think Thrall's mistake was fixed.
As long as garrosh is around, not it isn't.
His mistake was putting him to lead the Horde. And that Garrosh is no more. Now he's a rogue villain. He should've washed his hands about it
And you seriously think him going "trolololol, he escaped, he's YOUR problem now, not mine" is taking responsibility? Because its not.
Also, sorry for my choice of words, I didn't meant "leading" as the single leader of the Horde in there, but as "
member of the leadership
", because as I argued before, he should've took the 'Tirion's Retirement Plan' a long time ago.
I'm sorry, let me use clearer words in case I was not understood:
HE.IS.NOT.LEADING.
ANYTHING
.
He's not THE leader, nor is he A leader, or is he AMONG leaders, or is involved in ANY form of leadership. He is there exclusively and uniquely as a grunt, and nothing else.
To use an example of a previous expansion, he's sort of like Amber was on the alliance campaign in pandaria, or like Kyrin was on the horde version of the horde campaign in pandaria.
Just a soldier, just following orders.
Look at Maraad, he's also not leading anything, he's just there to lend his might to the cause, and to help with the fighting but that's it. He's not in charge of anything, he's not leading anything, he's not taking the initiative on anything, he just looks at his officer, gets his targets, and smashes them down.
We clear now? Or do I have to explain it again with simpler words?
because as I argued before, he should've took the 'Tirion's Retirement Plan' a long time ago.
Now that the final loose end is taken care of, maybe he will. But he couldn't just retire while the pupil he himself put in power is still out there causing havoc. That'd be as dumb as if Tirion had retired while the lich king (Arthas Lich King) was still around. And FYI: Tirion didn't really retired, he is now fighting the last remants of the scourge who still inhabit the plaguewoods.
Thrall on the other hand has no other rogue elementals or loose ends to take care of as a shaman, but Garrosh IS on the lose and he IS a loose end, and as the one who placed him in power in the first place, it was his responsibility to do something about that.
Seeing as he's neither the leader of the orcs, nor is he an officer in their army, he offered to help with the job of dealing with the Iron horde.
But the actual leaders of the expedition are exclusively Lady Liandrin (Who leads the blood elven forces) Durotan (Who leads the native horde forces on Draenor) and The Player (Who leads everyone else) and there is nobody else to lead.(##RESPBREAK##)520##DELIM##Rankkor##DELIM##
Post by
Adamsm
Well finished re-reading Tides of Darkness. And it actually had Cho'gall's 'rise' back story. He was found by Gul'dan and trained up. Also, I was wrong; he was all apocalyptic before reaching the Tomb. But suddenly the massive scars on the chest makes sense as he took a double axe blow there. Also, again, Bloodlust was mentioned and stated that the Fel Blood increased the natural orc bloodlust when it turned them all nuts.
Post by
Rankkor
So basically, pre-demon blood, the Bloodlust was only when they got really angry. Post-demon blood, it was a permanent effect that could not be turned off and had to be quenched with violence.
That........ makes a lot of sense actually.
Post by
Adamsm
Or violently excited, as seen with the Blackrock raiding party in Rise of the Horde.
Post by
matheus314
And FYI: Tirion didn't really retired, he is now fighting the last remants of the scourge who still inhabit the plaguewoods.
That's his
Tirion's Retirement Plan
that I mentioned before.
But let's change the subject. I want to be spoiled more. Have any you touched the raids already? What's the story involved there? Are there any plot-twists worth mentioning?
Post by
Rankkor
And FYI: Tirion didn't really retired, he is now fighting the last remants of the scourge who still inhabit the plaguewoods.
That's his
Tirion's Retirement Plan
that I mentioned before.
And that's what Thrall is doing. Tirion's "retirement plan" is to wrap up the loose ends of the bad guy he helped take down.
Thrall is wrapping up the loose ends of the bad guy he placed up, and then took out.
But let's change the subject. I want to be spoiled more. Have any you touched the raids already? What's the story involved there? Are there any plot-twists worth mentioning?
I honest-to-god tried to do Highmaul in LFR when it was open, but that idea didn't last long. Have you ever pugged LFR on a beta or PTR? the words "painful" and "agonizing" don't even begin to properly describe the horror. I just gave up.
So I dunno what plot twists (if any) are on each of these Raids. All I know is that 2 warlords die on them, and that's more or less it.
Post by
Rankkor
lol
Kadghar can sass like few people can. But he's honest, I can appreciate that :P
And now..... RANDOM IMAGES!!!!!!!!!!!
O_O
Kawaii Desu Meganekko Female Orc
!!!!!!!!!!
*Squeeeeeee*
Lol :P
The Shadow Council was once again trying to summon Murmur into Draenor, but on this alternate version, it was just 3 dudes in the middle of nowhere. Their ritual was way less successful.
Awwww look at the cute lil goblin child, what a cute lil'
AAHHHHHHH WHAT THE FLYING FRICK IS THAT?
DAMN!!!! O_O Somewhere, somehow, something went horribly wrong when making that model. It looks like a green Gollum, and the worst part is that they realized that because he acts like one too.
And finally:
Titans on Draenor Confirmed.
(Sort of)
Post by
oneforthemoney
Awwww look at the cute lil goblin child, what a cute lil'
AAHHHHHHH WHAT THE FLYING FRICK IS THAT?
DAMN! O_O Somewhere, somehow, something went horribly wrong when making that model. It looks like a green Gollum, and the worst part is that they realized that because he acts like one too.
That's actually exactly what I imagined a goblin child to look like. Basically a regular goblin with less wrinkles.
And finally:
Titans on Draenor Confirmed.
(Sort of)
I hope not, because if they are and we haven't seen any constructs around yet, then that likely means old gods curse of flesh all over again. And I would really like Draenor to actually be more unique from Azeroth outside of different races.
Post by
morginar
Lol :P
The Shadow Council was once again trying to summon Murmur into Draenor, but on this alternate version, it was just 3 dudes in the middle of nowhere. Their ritual was way less successful. Herpy derp and here I was thinking of sonic screwdriver raidboss murmur. Beter equip those troll wood gear. Becouse evryone knows sonic doesn't work on wood.
Maybe thats the origin of troll gear? When fighting mantid sonic guns wood was the only thing that protected them?
Awwww look at the cute lil goblin child, what a cute lil'
AAHHHHHHH WHAT THE FLYING FRICK IS THAT?
DAMN! O_O Somewhere, somehow, something went horribly wrong when making that model. It looks like a green Gollum, and the worst part is that they realized that because he acts like one too.Kill it with green fire!
And finally:
Titans on Draenor Confirmed.
(Sort of)
Foreshadowing for 6.2 raid tier?
Anyways hope the valut has data on that draenor old god in outland shadowmoon.
Post by
355559
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
And finally:
Titans on Draenor Confirmed.
(Sort of)
I hope not, because if they are and we haven't seen any constructs around yet, then that likely means old gods curse of flesh all over again. And I would really like Draenor to actually be more unique from Azeroth outside of different races.
Not necessarily, its possible that they arrived, weren't as interested on draenor as they were on azeroth, and left without planting any of the seed races. There are vague hints that they may have uplifted the incredibly advanced Apexis Civiliation to their super advanced state, and then left.
A quest on draenor more or less confirmed that titans were on draenor at some point but their stay was brief. We also see the remains of a construct's head on Gorgornd.
Post by
morginar
So Rank, is it in your opinion that there is enought foreshadowing of titan stuff on draenor for a future titan raid?
Post by
Adamsm
Could be that Draenor is a failed Titan restructing as well, but guess we'll have to wait and see.
Post by
Rankkor
So Rank, is it in your opinion that there is enought foreshadowing of titan stuff on draenor for a future titan raid?
Who knows. Considering how small and brief their presence was, I highly doubt we're gonna see an equivalent of Ulduar on Draenor.
Could be that Draenor is a failed Titan restructing as well, but guess we'll have to wait and see.
There are archaeological rests of an incredibly advanced race called the Apexis who lived in Draenor several thousands of years ago, even before the draenei arrived. The highborn Arakkoa (The ones who can fly) use the remnants of their leftover technology to oppress the rest of their kin, passing it off as Divine Power. This includes super-advanced robotic golems, and sun-powered orbital weapons.
Me thinks (though this is purely speculation on my end) that the Apexis were the one and only titan experiment on draenor, and they somehow uplifted this race and granted them advanced technology, only for them to kill each other with it.
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