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10.2.5
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General Lore Discussions
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Post by
Adamsm
He may show up, but I'm still hoping they declare 90% of that book non-canon....Kalec and Jaina's relationship most of all.
Ugh. I am really not fond of dragon relationships with mortals. Part of why half-dragons really irk me. (Sorry Hyper... :C)
Hey, they can leave in the Mana Bomb and the destruction of Theramore, the fact that Dark Shaman do bad things, and that Jaina is nuts...but everything else? Get rid of it; they ruined Kalec's character so badly in that book, Knaak should charge Golden with murder =P.
Post by
Skreeran
He may show up, but I'm still hoping they declare 90% of that book non-canon....Kalec and Jaina's relationship most of all.
Ugh. I am really not fond of dragon relationships with mortals. Part of why half-dragons really irk me. (Sorry Hyper... :C)
Hey, they can leave in the Mana Bomb and the destruction of Theramore, the fact that Dark Shaman do bad things, and that Jaina is nuts...but everything else? Get rid of it; they ruined Kalec's character so badly in that book, Knaak should charge Golden with murder =P.Well, I wouldn't be throwing stones if I were Knaak. I still remember Tyrande.
Post by
355559
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
Well, I wouldn't be throwing stones if I were Knaak. I still remember Tyrande.
Yeah I know, but as I love Kalec more then Tyrande....
Post by
Rankkor
He may show up, but I'm still hoping they declare 90% of that book non-canon....
even if they did (and they wont) him trying to hug the warchief (and Garrosh, rather reluctantly, giving him a single pat on his hat) is gonna stick.
As is Jaina transforming into Sylvannas 2.0
/sighs
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
Pretty sure most of these plot points were in the Bible so I wouldn't blame the writer, except maybe for the hug and the relationship.
'cause maybe if Garrosh had some when he was young and emo, he wouldn't be like this. The relationship can die in a fire. It's like the Aggra thing, except they reached even further in the cave of bad ideas for hooking characters up.
I've told adamsm this multiple times to no avail :P Kalec+Jaina, as well as jaina becoming Sylvannas 2.0, and the destruction of Theramoore, ALL of it, was what blizz told Golden to write. She had to word it, so blaming her for hooking jaina and kalec is silly, as those 2 would had been together regardless of who was the writer.
Anyhows, once you do reach pandaria, (and more importantly, reach lvl 90) you'll see that blizz kept their promise of showing some (tough) love to the Blood Elves. They get a heck of a lot of protagonism in this expansion. Though I do wish we had more iconic characters on the front lines other than Theron. You know, like Liandrin.
Post by
Adamsm
She had to word it, so blaming her for hooking jaina and kalec is silly, as those 2 would had been together regardless of who was the writer.Then rather then raping Kalec's character, she should have put some actual effort into her writing...but then again, she's been half-assing it for a while now, so not a surprise.
Edit: But I guess since Kalec isn't Thrall or Theresa, Golden just doesn't care.
Post by
Rankkor
She had to word it, so blaming her for hooking jaina and kalec is silly, as those 2 would had been together regardless of who was the writer.Then rather then raping Kalec's character, she should have put some actual effort into her writing...but then again, she's been half-assing it for a while now, so not a surprise.
Edit: But I guess since Kalec isn't Thrall or Theresa, Golden just doesn't care.
Dude, that pairing is so stupid, and so insane there's no way in hell anyone could had made it easier to swallow. Even if blizzard ressurected Tolkien, Shakespeare, and Miguel de Cervantes, and fused them together to create the greatest writer of all times, it would STILL turn out a disaster.
Some pairings are just not going to work. So Golden just said "screw it" and didn't bothered. I'd do the same.
Post by
oneforthemoney
I thought Cervantes was the character.
Post by
Adamsm
So Golden just said "screw it" and didn't bothered. I'd do the same.
Problem is Rank, she said screw it to 90% of the book; she didn't give a crap at all if the characters weren't Thrall.
Post by
Rankkor
I thought Cervantes was the character.
o_O hell no bro', Miguel de Cervantes is one of the best writers of all times, for writing what has got to be one of the most acclaimed books ever: Don Quixote.
So Golden just said "screw it" and didn't bothered. I'd do the same.
Problem is Rank, she said screw it to 90% of the book; she didn't give a crap at all if the characters weren't Thrall.
I don't see how. The book wasn't poorly written, it had good humor, the fight sequences were acceptable, the pacing was great, and the dialog was also ok (while it wasn't as good as her previous works, its certainly nowhere near "Bad")
The only thing I disliked about the book was the plot, but you can hardly blame the author for that, given that what they write is what blizz tells them to write, you'd be surprised at how little freedoms they have when it comes to writing novel tie-ins to videogames.
When an author takes too many liberties, the resulting work can be a true DISASTER, as proven with Dietz and his works on the Halo books and the recent Mass Effect Deception book.
Post by
oneforthemoney
I thought Cervantes was the character.
o_O hell no bro', Miguel de Cervantes is one of the best writers of all times, for writing what has got to be one of the most acclaimed books ever: Don Quixote.
That was it. My bad. I just thought of Quixote shouting 'Cervantes!' and assumed.
I should get around to picking that one up.
Post by
Adamsm
I don't see how. The book wasn't poorly written, it had good humor, the fight sequences were acceptable, the pacing was great, and the dialog was also ok (while it wasn't as good as her previous works, its certainly nowhere near "Bad")
Unless of course said dialog was between well....anyone and Jaina. The Fight sequences were more or less 'oh !@#$ everyone run'; the battle for Theramore was confusing as sin. Pacing was slow; so many pages about Garrosh sitting and doing nothing.
Post by
Rankkor
I thought Cervantes was the character.
o_O hell no bro', Miguel de Cervantes is one of the best writers of all times, for writing what has got to be one of the most acclaimed books ever: Don Quixote.
That was it. My bad. I just thought of Quixote shouting 'Cervantes!' and assumed.
I should get around to picking that one up.
You should, not for nothing its considered THE BEST spanish book ever written, and one of the most infulential novels of all times. Heck, back in the middle ages, it spawned proto-memes regarding the protagonist and his famous fight against giants that he thought were windmills.
Funny enough, the writer, Cervantes, makes a small cameo on the novel itself, as one of the people trying to convince Quijano that he's not a real knight. IRL the author was trying to mock how silly the chivalric knight books were, so he self-inserted himself on one chapter to hammer that down. Too bad his book actually revived the Chivalric novels as a genre in all of europa =D
Anyhows, this got waay of topic (I just love to talk about that book, one DAMNED GOOD BOOK) but yeah, if you haven't read it, do so. Just........ don't try to read the original version in Old Spanish. Sheehs, I speak spanish as a native language, and even I have a problem understanding it (you think old english was bad? pfft, it wasn't till I got the modern spanish version that I was able to read it back when I was a kid)
get it in english and save yourself a head-ache.
I don't see how. The book wasn't poorly written, it had good humor, the fight sequences were acceptable, the pacing was great, and the dialog was also ok (while it wasn't as good as her previous works, its certainly nowhere near "Bad")
Unless of course said dialog was between well....anyone and Jaina. The Fight sequences were more or less 'oh !@#$ everyone run'; the battle for Theramore was confusing as sin. Pacing was slow; so many pages about Garrosh sitting and doing nothing.
Mileages May Vary.
You hated the fight sequences in Twilight of the Aspects too, but I found them awesome, particularly all the times Thrall and Blackmoore fought. The one fight scene that could be considered somewhat boring was the last one between the aspects and Chromatus, because of the whole beam-spam thingie.
And I just don't get how you can say the pacing was slow after praising the Knaak books so much. Reason number 1 I stopped reading his books is because of how unbearably slow the pacing is, SPECIALLY on Day of the Dragon.
I don't recall any single scene in Tides of War lasting more than a page or two, whereas in Day of the Dragon, just describing a simple room in Grim Batol could take up to SIX PAGES!
Post by
oneforthemoney
I thought Cervantes was the character.
o_O hell no bro', Miguel de Cervantes is one of the best writers of all times, for writing what has got to be one of the most acclaimed books ever: Don Quixote.
That was it. My bad. I just thought of Quixote shouting 'Cervantes!' and assumed.
I should get around to picking that one up.
-snipped-
I intend to. Still slogging through Dostoyevsky but I do really want to pick that one up.
On topic: a poor workman blames their tools. While true they are told what to write, they are allowed to take some liberties. Unless we know the specific requests Blizz made for the book and thus the freedom given with them, we can only judge the result. Everything else is simply conjecture.
Post by
Adamsm
I don't recall any single scene in Tides of War lasting more than a page or two, whereas in Day of the Dragon, just describing a simple room in Grim Batol could take up to SIX PAGES!Again, pretty much any scene with Garrosh was slow; all he was smug and pretending to have deeper thoughts. There was also the slow pacing when Kalec, Jaina and the others were researching things, or when Kalec left and went north, or any other number of times.
Post by
Rankkor
I thought Cervantes was the character.
o_O hell no bro', Miguel de Cervantes is one of the best writers of all times, for writing what has got to be one of the most acclaimed books ever: Don Quixote.
That was it. My bad. I just thought of Quixote shouting 'Cervantes!' and assumed.
I should get around to picking that one up.
-snipped-
I intend to. Still slogging through Dostoyevsky but I do really want to pick that one up.
On topic: a poor workman blames their tools. While true they are told what to write, they are allowed to take some liberties. Unless we know the specific requests Blizz made for the book and thus the freedom given with them, we can only judge the result. Everything else is simply conjecture.
Blizz told her to make Kalec+Jaina happen, to sink theramoore while killing off as many alliance generals as possible, and to basically make Jaina a Sylvannas clone.
There's no way that could turn up good, no matter who does the writing.
Also I disagree with that "poor workman blames the tools". If I'm a carpenter and all I have is a rusty saw, a bent and dented hammer, watered down glue, ect, you bet my work is gonna be sloppy. A true artisan will try to do their best with what they're provided with, but if what you're provided with sucks, you can't expect a masterpiece.
Expecting Da Vinci to paint a perfect Mona Lisa while giving him watered down paint, rugged linens, and worn out brushes would lead to a poor painting, no matter the skill of the painter.
Post by
Adamsm
The thing is Rank, it's still a bad book; she didn't try very hard to make these 'horrible' plots actually good, she just tossed things in and hoped that the furor of people who like her books would over look this stuff.
Post by
oneforthemoney
Truth be told, I haven't read the book. I'm making broader statements than perhaps need be. Still, she was told to write the book. And expectations seem to have fallen short for many people. Blaming Blizzard completely for the failure isn't really fair. When a product driven TV show fails to make their episodes interesting, it's not necessarily the company who tells them to put a product in who is at fault. Working the characters to make these things good is the writers job. So some blame does fall on her shoulders when things went south, though admittedly not all of it.
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