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Post by
Adamsm
Poor poor Ary....all that time as a prisoner, Kalec saves her, musical swell of romance.....and #$%^ing Golden screws her over again. Jesu christo, get Knaak back, bring in Grubbs, just give someone else the books.
Post by
Rankkor
Poor poor Ary....all that time as a prisoner, Kalec saves her, musical swell of romance.....and #$%^ing Golden screws her over again. Jesu christo, get Knaak back, bring in Grubbs, just give someone else the books.
Dude, its not golden, its the higher ups at blizzard. You really think they give the writers creative freedom to choose what to do with the characters? they give them a basic layout of the story, who gets killed, who shags who, what happens, and its up to the writer to simply put it in writing.
Had this book been written by Knaak, it would had had THE EXACT same outcome. With crappier prose of course, endless mentions of alluring orbs, and mentioning the word "orc" once, and from that point onward "Unwashed beast" "Animal" "Monster" "Behemot" ect.
So don't pin this on golden, she's just writing what they told her to write.
Edit:
Example, for Lord of the Clans, its not like Golden invented the entire book. Metzen (or someone else, I dunno) handled her their basic plans for Thrall and it was simply "Orc baby is raised with humans, raised as a slave, escapes, leads revolution with other orcs, his childhood friend gets killed, he becomes a shaman" and it was her job to word that thing into an actual story. IF she had wanted Tari to live, she wouldn't had been able to do it, because the script handled to her demanded that she died. Just like the script demanded that Thrall lose his parents.
Same case here, the plot was not in her hands, only how to word it.
Post by
Adamsm
They have some creative freedom Rank; while they have to follow an outline, how they do so is up to them. But the fact is that any romance in a Golden book is a plot tumour, and always will be..especially since the previous book had a set up for a proper consort of the Blue flight.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
Poor poor Ary....all that time as a prisoner, Kalec saves her, musical swell of romance.....and #$%^ing Golden screws her over again. Jesu christo, get Knaak back, bring in Grubbs, just give someone else the books.
Oh and Grubb is working for Arenanet now, I don't think he even
can
write anymore warcraft novels, can he?
That's not how it works. Writers aren't full time employees of any single company, nor are voice actors.
Grubb also wrote a Dragon Age book while still working at blizzard. Ditto for Voice-actors. Steve Blum voices the Male Bounty Hunter on SWTOR, and yet, while he still does voices for several other characters on that game, he ALSO voices Male Charr and Rytlock on GW2.
So no. Writers and Voice-actors are freelance. Much like actors in hollywood. Imagine if you said "ohh no Ian Mckellen can't act for you, he's permanently bound to Peter Jackson and his Tolkien movies.
That's just not how it works. Having said that, until a writer has finished his or her current commision they shouldn't Accept other commissions, else they risk writing poorer quality books. But other than that, no, they're not permanent employees of any one company.
They have some creative freedom Rank; while they have to follow an outline, how they do so is up to them.
Not on major plot elements. If Golden wanted set up Thrall with Jaina and metzen says no, then its no. Do you honestly think she "invented" the character of aggra? wrong, the writing team at blizz created aggra, gave golden the basic characterization of her and just went "make them hook up" The outline of this book is a disaster, and no matter who would had written it, some things are just bad no matter who does the writing.
A desicion as major as hooking up 2 of the biggest characters in lore isn't just left to some random writer that isn't a part of blizzard's staff. Golden may decide what the characters say, how they act, how they react, but the basic outline isn't hers to decide. Attack on theramoore? that was already preordained, Jaina and Kalec? preordained, Fight of Garrosh and Varian Round 2? Preordained.
There's a difference between creative freedom and "Taking the plot wherever you want"
Nah, they won't bring Knaak back, they're too busy killing off every character he ever created to please the fans who despise Knaak. I really don't think he's going to be happy about them killing off Rhonin, who's next, his half elf children?
Sold, every ounce of hate he has was and is well-deserved. His books are infamous. You probably like him because of how he godlyfies every alliance character that lands on his lap, but more objective readers can see that 60% of his writing is BS prose, beating around the bush, and blatant character derailment of anyone who's not the protagonist.
Post by
Adamsm
Sorry Rank but I enjoy Knaak's writing as well; yes some of his books are crap, but he also has some great ones...which really, at this point you can say about Golden =P.
Jaina and Kalec? preordained, Still given to a writer who creates massive romantic plot tumors: between that incredibly disturbing three way love triangle in Rise of the Lich King that came out of nowhere(since you know, there was no reference at all to Kael being attracted to Jaina in WC3), then what happened between Arthas and Jaina....yeah. And of course, Blizzard may have made Aggra, but Golden didn't attempt to flesh her out at all and just used her as a wooden figurine.
Post by
Rankkor
Sorry Rank but I enjoy Knaak's writing as well; yes some of his books are crap, but he also has some great ones...which really, at this point you can say about Golden =P.
I'm willing to admit this, as much as I thoroughly enjoyed Rise of the Horde, Lord of the Clans, and every part of The Shattering that didn't included Aggra, I didn't enjoyed Twilight of the Aspects, and it doesn't seem like I'll enjoy Tides of War either.
Still given to a writer who creates massive romantic plot tumors
It could had been given to Shakespeare and it would had still sucked. We're talking about Jaina + Kalec here, a ship I'm sure almost nobody wants, and that it came out of nowhere too.
And of course, Blizzard may have made Aggra, but Golden didn't attempt to flesh her out at all and just used her as a wooden figurine.
But...........but........... dude, she IS a wooden figurine, have you actually SEEN her in the game? every time she yells "GO'EL" I feel like I wanna reach inside my screen and choke her. Lets face it, that was a lose-lose situation, again, I doubt any writer could had done that one well. (of course I'm not saying she made it right either)
Post by
Adamsm
I know, but in the hands of someone like Knaak or Grubb, they could have possibly salvaged her book version rather then just going with the one dimensional character we see now.
We're talking about Jaina + Kalec here, a ship I'm sure almost nobody wants, and that it came out of nowhere too.Again, in the hands of Knaak, it probably could have been done better; after all, he had a lot more experience with Kalec and he wrote both of the original ships for the character. It's still a crack pairing, but given to the right writer it could have possibly worked.
Post by
Rankkor
meh, I disagree, that was a disaster, and disasters can't be salvaged. This is poor writing on blizzard's part, and then attempt to use a talented writer to make it right.
Some things can't be fixed. Again, I still have a small glimmer of hope that those spoilers were fake, but its come to the point where I actually believe them capable of writing crap like that.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
=/ I'm afraid you missed the worse offenders when it comes to Knaak litterature. I haven't read wolfheart (I just can't stand his writing, so I just skipped Stormrage and Wolfheart and simply read a summary on wowpedia) so I can't comment on that book, but his writing on Day of the Dragon was horrible, as was in the War of the Ancients trilogy, and Night of the dragon. In fact, Night of the Dragon was so bad, I gave up mid-way and just went "Screw it, I'll just read a summary". Something I've only done when reading a grand total of 8 times. (And this is from someone who's read hundreds of books)
His work on the dragonlance books wasn't much better from what I hear. The things that irk me the most about him is his rimbombant prose ("Alluring orbs" really? this is what he calls Eyes 7 out of 10 times, unless he's talking about an orc) his TEHHEHEHEHEHEEEERIBLE pacing, and uninteresting combat sequences.
I mean, golden has her flaws (Poor woman wouldn't write a good romance if her life depended on it) but at least the pacing on her books is spotless, the dialog is amazing, the combat sequences are OFF THE HOOK (Totally digged the fights on Rise of the Horde and Lord of the Clans, and the way she described Baine kicking all forms of ass in The Shattering was divine) and best of all, she does the best at "Getting inside a character's head". Like you know what they're thinking and its completely in-character.
However, even the best writers can't just magically turn a pile of crap and make it into gold, the entire outline of Tides of War just sucks, and if even 10% of the spoilers of that book end up being true, my goodness, that book may be a strong contender for the "worst-warcraft-book-EVER!" award. (Dethroning the longtime champion "Cycle of Hatred")
Yes, that bad I think of these spoilers if they turn out to be true. I said it.
Post by
Adamsm
Heh, well, that's where the opinions come in Rank; I loved Day and Night of the Dragon, Stormrage was excellent, I loved the Sunwell Trilogy and the Shadow Dragon duology...but I know he has his flaws; War of the Ancients and the Ballad of Trag Highmountain stand out the most to me.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Atik
We're talking about Jaina + Kalec here, a ship I'm sure almost nobody wants, and that it came out of nowhere too.Again, in the hands of Knaak, it probably could have been done better; after all, he had a lot more experience with Kalec and he wrote both of the original ships for the character. It's still a crack pairing, but given to the right writer it could have possibly worked.
Yes, a good writer can successfully ship anyone. I've seen a villain shipped with a hero and it was very believable, of course, lots of character progression on the villain's part was required, but still, it just proved to me that any ship can work when written by a good writer.
Batman and Catwoman
Spiderman and a large number of villainesses.
Hell, even Samurai Jack got shipped with Aku acting as a female.... TWICE.
Hero x Villain ships are quite common, Sold.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
No, some ships just don't make any sense...such as a Warcraft dragon and a Mortal.....
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
He was set up with both Tyrigosa and Aryigosa; both of which make a thousand times more sense then a human mortal, especially as the Blues need their Leader helping to make more little blues...something that more then likely can't help with a little short life mortal.
But no Sold, not all ships can 'work' no matter how the writer makes it: Trying to ship a Demon of the Legion with a Paladin would be idiotic since both of those are as opposite as they can be.
As for: I think a good writer could sucessfully pull off a JainaxGarrosh shipSince Garrosh has a massive hatred of humans, that one is impossible, no matter how the writer 'tries' to fix it.
Post by
355559
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Atik
No, Sold, some ships are very much Crackships, no matter who writes them.
You can write two characters together, and have it be a good story, but the ship still won't make sense. Kalec and Jaina, in order to work as a believable ship, will need to be drastically changed as characters.
Even ignoring the DragonxMortal bit (Since I can still completely see that happening under certain circumstances.) The two characters lack chemistry, and their personalities don't mesh.
For a good example of what a ship like this entails; take a look at Ron and Hermoinie in the Sorcerer's Stone, then look at them in Deathly Hollows. Throughout the books, they went through a massive amount of changes to work as a couple.
Blizzard is currently attempting to do something similar. Except instead of several books spanning years, their shoving all this into one Expansion pack. THAT is what makes it a crackship.
Still a better love story than Twilight, though.
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