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Post by
Adamsm
Other then the fact, for the last expansion, we've fought the Twilight forces.....and guess what all of the Orcs in RFC look like? That's right; they are all done up in Twilight armour, and have Ash-hounds and the Lava Bursters, seen as part the forces of Ragnaros during the Molten Front.
So yeah...seeing forces of the Twilight Hammer, the first thing that pops into my mind 'Oh, must be the Horde!'; she and the SI:7 member in there are holding giant Idiot Balls.
Edit 2: Also, Orcs have a massive taboo of anything involving corruption; they'd never willing undergo any modifications that would change them from regular orcs to monsters...since you know, they've been spending the last 20 years doing their best to cleanse their spiritual soul from the past.
Post by
Morec0
It's all Alliance predejuice. The Horde, in all honesty, dosn't have a long history of clean, white slate (neither does the Alliance, but I'll get to that later) and given the relative closeness of Warcraft to its previous installments in terms of time it makes sense that the moment a gnome, human, dwarf, or even a night elf on occasion (but for a whole entirely different reason) would instantly jump to the conclusion that something as messed up as what's goin' down in RFC could be the Horde. After all: G1 DKs? Horde. Near-invincible Troll beserkers? Horde. Ogre Magi? Horde. (And, of course, the associates the orcs, trolls, and tauren made with other races like the Forsaken add another layer to that).
The Alliance also dosn't have a clear slate, but that's for much more recent reasons that in themselves are spawned from the predejuice of not being able to let go of the past events spoken of above. The Horde could turn around and blame them for alot of the weird stuff they're seeing, but don't. Why? Because they've done their best to repent from their past actions and don't call the kettle black (also Garrosh keeps their focus on war, and the ones not major players in the war; Darkspear, tauren, have no beef with the Alliance).
Had WoW taken place 100 years in the future then yes, the gnomes jumping to conclusions would be facepalm worthy, but from a direct standpoint of time that gnome probably had an uncle or grandparent killed by the Horde in the second war, and that has transformed into a deep-seated psychological conidtion. And why learn about the culture of someone you hate (something that happens IRL)? Therefore, said gnome may not know that the orcs abhore that kind of change.
Post by
Adamsm
Actually Morec, the Darkspear do have a legitimate beef with Humans, if not the Alliance as a whole: Kul Tiras attacked their island and are partially responsible for the Murlocs and the Sea Witch killing off Sen'jin.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Morec0
Actually Morec, the Darkspear do have a legitimate beef with Humans, if not the Alliance as a whole: Kul Tiras attacked their island and are partially responsible for the Murlocs and the Sea Witch killing off Sen'jin.
Ah, I forgot about that. Still, not quite on the same level as the massive conflict between orcs and human, or orcs and undead. Of course, that's just my personal view on the situation.
It's all Alliance predejuice. The Horde, in all honesty, dosn't have a long history of clean, white slate (neither does the Alliance, but I'll get to that later) and given the relative closeness of Warcraft to its previous installments in terms of time it makes sense that the moment a gnome, human, dwarf, or even a night elf on occasion (but for a whole entirely different reason) would instantly jump to the conclusion that something as messed up as what's goin' down in RFC could be the Horde. After all: G1 DKs? Horde. Near-invincible Troll beserkers? Horde. Ogre Magi? Horde. (And, of course, the associates the orcs, trolls, and tauren made with other races like the Forsaken add another layer to that).
The Alliance also dosn't have a clear slate, but that's for much more recent reasons that in themselves are spawned from the predejuice of not being able to let go of the past events spoken of above. The Horde could turn around and blame them for alot of the weird stuff they're seeing, but don't. Why? Because they've done their best to repent from their past actions and don't call the kettle black (also Garrosh keeps their focus on war, and the ones not major players in the war; Darkspear, tauren, have no beef with the Alliance).
Had WoW taken place 100 years in the future then yes, the gnomes jumping to conclusions would be facepalm worthy, but from a direct standpoint of time that gnome probably had an uncle or grandparent killed by the Horde in the second war, and that has transformed into a deep-seated psychological conidtion. And why learn about the culture of someone you hate (something that happens IRL)? Therefore, said gnome may not know that the orcs abhore that kind of change.
This post......I approve of it.
Well that's good, was worried it was going to start another flame war about the morality of each side.
Post by
Adamsm
Would it not be more accurate to say they have a beef with only the kul'tiras humans, who are also MIA at this point? Though to a troll, there's probably no difference.By that logic, Varian should only have issues with Blackrock and Shadowmoon Orcs, who were wiped out, since Gul'dan and Blackhand set up his father's death by using Garona.
Ah, I forgot about that. Still, not quite on the same level as the massive conflict between orcs and human, or orcs and undead. Of course, that's just my personal view on the situation.Heh aye I know; but really, it's just the Taurens who don't have an actual issue with the Alliance(well, maybe now, since the Alliance and the Grimtotem had a brief enemy mine in Stonetalon).
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
Well like I said, your average troll probably doesn't see a difference. Or know. Or care.And you can say the exact same thing for your average Human; doesn't matter if the skins is brown or green, if it's an Orc, kill it, whether they did anything to you or not.
I doubt that; that's even worse to the Tauren, as there was an agreement not to attack and the Alliance broke that. When it comes to Honour, Tauren have an even higher sense of it then the Orcs do.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
but clearly the darkspear are willing to work with the alliance and help them as seen in the rise of the zandalari patch. Vol'jin went out of his way to help the alliance, even though they were his enemies, he still went out of his way to help them fight the zandalari. So I don't really think the trolls have any issue with the humans anymore based on those two points.And they do the same for the Horde; as the Zandalari were a threat to everyone, he was willing to put aside his hate for that moment: Look at how Vol'jin sees Garrosh, as the troll leader still wants to kill him, but is holding off because Thrall asked him not to. Probably the same case in regards to humans....especially since the Northwatch fleet was intending on destroyed Sen'jin Village(and by extension Echo Isles). So yeah....they still have issues.
Well we still helped them so that should, somewhat, make up for it. That and we needed the grimtotem's help to defeat the horde in stonetalon. I don't think the tauren would think any less of the alliance, they're enemies, for teaming up with the grimtotem, their other enemies.Again: The Alliance showed they were willing to break promises and honour and attack their previous 'allies' of the Grimtotem. Doubt the Tauren will ever see the Alliance as good, beyond the Night Elves who they have their old alliance with. After all, Dwarves were digging up sacred Tauren land and didn't give a crap in the old Barrens; killing/driving off the Tauren who tried to explain to them why that land was sacred to them.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Morec0
I have to agree with Sold. Especially with the Northwatch gone we could have Vol'jen deciding "well, they're no longer a problem, no reason to keep hating other humans" or setting aside whatever hatred of humans might be present because Thrall wants peace, just like the whole Garrosh matter. Then again the trolls could simply have been shoved out of the way, similar to the draenei or the worgen, and whatever beef the two have with each other simply isn't being shown.
Post by
Adamsm
Eh, I'm not personally seeing it. Based on the fact that vol'jin and the other darkspear never mention the humans attacking them way back when, and how they went out of their way to help the alliance even though they didn't have to, they could've just let the zandalari wipe them out (and if I recall, vol'jin made it clear the reason he helped was because he knew the alliance are people too who don't deserve to be wiped out by the zandalari, or at least it's implied), and how the alliance didn't seem the have much issue working with them, I'd say that the darkspear and alliance are pretty much chill.Yeah, super chill...which is why the guards all around the boat that have the Darkspear ambassador have their weapons out and are in ready stance. The reason Vol'jin got the Alliance in on the conflict was because he wasn't being an idiot like Garrosh, and knew that it would take both factions to bring down the Zandalari and the reborn Gurubashi and Amani tribes. Also, just like in so many other things...it's not Alliance forces as a whole, it's the adventurers heading out to stop them as the towns you arrive in the Vale and Cape are under assault and have no choice but to accept the help of Darkspear Ambassador or they are going to die...and if she lets them all die, Vol'jin would be angry at her. But even though the Darkspear are the black sheep of the Troll tribes...they are still Trolls; they don't give up hatreds easily.
Then again the trolls could simply have been shoved out of the way, similar to the draenei or the worgen, and whatever beef the two have with each other simply isn't being shown.That's the real reason of course.
Post by
Anaran
I feel like Adam is making a proper point here, I mean tactically speaking it makes sense to go to the Alliance to deal with the Gurubashi, since their lands border the troll lands and it'd be easier for them to mobilize an army than the Horde. Vol'jin isn't an idiot and can see past his hatreds, I do believe he had some humanitarian motives too, but the tactical value was probably the most prominent bonus of that, besides it's an easy game-mechanic to have Vol'jin want the Alliance's help considering it was the first major content patch.
Post by
Rankkor
You know, I re-ran the new RFC on an Alliance toon, and had a better chance to read the quests(last time I did it was in a pug group), and putting that stuff together with what the Horde learned.....the Gnome mage in command is a putz; she makes massive assumptions about what is going on in the Chasm,
blaming the Horde for what the Dark Shamans are doing.
...
>.> like that's not what the alliance does EVERY SINGLE FRAKKING TIME something bad happens.
"ohhh noes, people are falling asleep into a coma and not waking up" DAH HORDE DID IT!
"Ohh noes, night elf chicks were killed and skinned and flayed" DAH HORDE DID IT!
"ohh noes, theramoore peace summit was attacked" DAH HORDE DID IT!
its like they hold the horde as some sort of boogiemen to pin all their problems to.
next thing we know if one of the moons crashes on stormwind they'll blame the horde for that one too.
This post makes me chortle.
Why? because its true? (Quote one is from the book "Stormrage" quote 2 is from the book "The shattering" quote 3 is from the comics, issue 23 of the third season if my memory is correct)
but clearly the darkspear are willing to work with the alliance and help them as seen in the rise of the zandalari patch. Vol'jin went out of his way to help the alliance, even though they were his enemies, he still went out of his way to help them fight the zandalari. So I don't really think the trolls have any issue with the humans anymore based on those two points.And they do the same for the Horde; as the Zandalari were a threat to everyone, he was willing to put aside his hate for that moment: Look at how Vol'jin sees Garrosh, as the troll leader still wants to kill him, but is holding off because Thrall asked him not to. Probably the same case in regards to humans....especially since the Northwatch fleet was intending on destroyed Sen'jin Village(and by extension Echo Isles). So yeah....they still have issues.
Eh, I'm not personally seeing it. Based on the fact that vol'jin and the other darkspear never mention the humans attacking them way back when, and how they went out of their way to help the alliance even though they didn't have to, they could've just let the zandalari wipe them out (and if I recall, vol'jin made it clear the reason he helped was because he knew the alliance are people too who don't deserve to be wiped out by the zandalari, or at least it's implied), and how the alliance didn't seem the have much issue working with them, I'd say that the darkspear and alliance are pretty much chill.
You do realize of course that Vol'jin wasn't so much helping the alliance but rather asking the alliance for help right? The main difference is that while trolls have been attacked by stormwind humans recently (Invasion of durotar that broke the peace treaty rings a bell?) he's not so blind as to ignore a bigger threat.
Its the same reason why Malfurion helps horde troops on Hyjal, despite the fact that Darnassus is officially an enemy of the horde. Ditto for Thrall, and so many others.
Post by
Adamsm
Break up of the Theramore summit was around issue 12.
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
Heh aye I know; but really, it's just the Taurens who don't have an actual issue with the Alliance(well, maybe now, since the Alliance and the Grimtotem had a brief enemy mine in Stonetalon).
Taurajo?
not to mention the dwarves on southern barrens.
Though considering the peaceful nature of taurens, I can see them as being willing to forgive and forget eventually. (something VERY FEW of the races within both factions are willing to do)
Post by
Adamsm
Heh aye I know; but really, it's just the Taurens who don't have an actual issue with the Alliance(well, maybe now, since the Alliance and the Grimtotem had a brief enemy mine in Stonetalon).
Taurajo?
That too.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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