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Post by
GVHB
If Orranis was referring to
this
then yes.
Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
Excellent work, Rank... :)
That looks like it took a lot of work. Well done.
I more or less agree on all points.
Edit: And Dark, it's not just that we're resistant to change.
It shouldn't look like a warrior city. It should be well defended, yes, but if you had used plain old steel and stone to fortify the outside and key gates, it could have been just as practical without looking like Cirith Ungol.
It seems to me that it looks better to you because you believe the orcs to be dark and brutal through and through, and this new city does indeed reflect that.
What upsets me and Rankkor and others is that it seems our loves of the Thrall's Horde, the New Horde that we've loved since Warcraft 3, is drowning in the new ways that Garrosh is instituting.
Edit: I'm reminded of a passage from
The Restaurant at the End of the Universe
by Douglas Adams:
Standing silhouetted in the doorway through which they had entered the vault was the man who wasn't pleased to see them. His displeasure was communicated partly by the barking hectoring quality of his voice and partly by the viciousness with which he waved his long Kill-O-Zap gun at them. The designer of the gun had clearly not been instructed to beat around the bush. "Make it evil," he'd been told. "Make it totally clear that this gun has a right end and a wrong end. Make it totally clear to anyone standing on the wrong end that things are going badly for them. If that means sticking all sort of spikes and prongs and blackened bits all over it then so be it. This is not a gun for hanging over the fireplace or sticking in the umbrella stand, it is a gun for going out and making people miserable with."
Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
HiVolt
Seriously, I love the new Orcish look. Yeah, it's reminiscent of Hellfire Citadel, and that kinda sucks... but it's also badass.
Post by
Skreeran
Everyone keeps talking about how badass it is, but it just doesn't feel right to me.
It feels... evil. Like Mordor, or Hellfire Citadel.
And I'm afraid that all the people who think it's so "badass" is going to mean that it's here to stay.
I don't like this at all.
Post by
Adamsm
/shrug, You know, the big thing we still don't know on that... which 'Warchief' ordered the fortification; if it was Thrall or if it was Garrosh? I mean, Thrall can't have that much of a true problem with the black metal and all, he didn't stop Garrosh from creating and forging Warsong Hold.
Post by
Skreeran
/shrug, You know, the big thing we still don't know on that... which 'Warchief' ordered the fortification; if it was Thrall or if it was Garrosh? I mean, Thrall can't have that much of a true problem with the black metal and all, he didn't stop Garrosh from creating and forging Warsong Hold.Warsong Hold is a fortress, built for war on hostile ground.
Orgrimmar is the home for thousands of people. It's not just a fortress for war, it's a home. It should feel like one.
Post by
HiVolt
/shrug, You know, the big thing we still don't know on that... which 'Warchief' ordered the fortification; if it was Thrall or if it was Garrosh? I mean, Thrall can't have that much of a true problem with the black metal and all, he didn't stop Garrosh from creating and forging Warsong Hold.Warsong Hold is a fortress, built for war on hostile ground.
Orgrimmar is the home for thousands of people. It's not just a fortress for war, it's a home. It should feel like one.
Sort of like how the Undercity feels like a home?
Post by
Skreeran
/shrug, You know, the big thing we still don't know on that... which 'Warchief' ordered the fortification; if it was Thrall or if it was Garrosh? I mean, Thrall can't have that much of a true problem with the black metal and all, he didn't stop Garrosh from creating and forging Warsong Hold.Warsong Hold is a fortress, built for war on hostile ground.
Orgrimmar is the home for thousands of people. It's not just a fortress for war, it's a home. It should feel like one.
Sort of like how the Undercity feels like a home?Undercity is populated by the living dead.
Try again.
Post by
Monday
/shrug, You know, the big thing we still don't know on that... which 'Warchief' ordered the fortification; if it was Thrall or if it was Garrosh? I mean, Thrall can't have that much of a true problem with the black metal and all, he didn't stop Garrosh from creating and forging Warsong Hold.Warsong Hold is a fortress, built for war on hostile ground.
Orgrimmar is the home for thousands of people. It's not just a fortress for war, it's a home. It should feel like one.
Considering Orgrimmar faces the very real threat of attack, what with the Alliance pressing in on its doorstep, it will need to become a fortress. Remember, Ogrimmar is a
warrior city
. If it needs to be fortified, then let it be fortified.
Post by
HiVolt
/shrug, You know, the big thing we still don't know on that... which 'Warchief' ordered the fortification; if it was Thrall or if it was Garrosh? I mean, Thrall can't have that much of a true problem with the black metal and all, he didn't stop Garrosh from creating and forging Warsong Hold.Warsong Hold is a fortress, built for war on hostile ground.
Orgrimmar is the home for thousands of people. It's not just a fortress for war, it's a home. It should feel like one.
Sort of like how the Undercity feels like a home?Undercity is populated by the living dead.
Try again.
And Orgrimmar isn't populated by warriors, but only by innocent civilians?
A warrior would take pride in seeing his home city as fortified and menacing to his enemies.
There's a spectrum of people that you're completely overlooking when you put down the new look.
Post by
Skreeran
/shrug, You know, the big thing we still don't know on that... which 'Warchief' ordered the fortification; if it was Thrall or if it was Garrosh? I mean, Thrall can't have that much of a true problem with the black metal and all, he didn't stop Garrosh from creating and forging Warsong Hold.Warsong Hold is a fortress, built for war on hostile ground.
Orgrimmar is the home for thousands of people. It's not just a fortress for war, it's a home. It should feel like one.
Considering Orgrimmar faces the very real threat of attack, what with the Alliance pressing in on its doorstep, it will need to become a fortress. Remember, Ogrimmar is a
warrior city
. If it needs to be fortified, then let it be fortified.Again, look at Darnassus, Ironforge, and Stormwind. Strong, well fortified, and they don't look like
The Dark Lord of Mordor live there
Nathan Explosion's wet-dream.
/shrug, You know, the big thing we still don't know on that... which 'Warchief' ordered the fortification; if it was Thrall or if it was Garrosh? I mean, Thrall can't have that much of a true problem with the black metal and all, he didn't stop Garrosh from creating and forging Warsong Hold.Warsong Hold is a fortress, built for war on hostile ground.
Orgrimmar is the home for thousands of people. It's not just a fortress for war, it's a home. It should feel like one.
Sort of like how the Undercity feels like a home?Undercity is populated by the living dead.
Try again.
And Orgrimmar isn't populated by warriors, but only by innocent civilians?
A warrior would take pride in seeing his home city as fortified and menacing to his enemies.
There's a spectrum of people that you're completely overlooking when you put down the new look.Again, there's a difference between functional and overdone.
Look again at the Douglas Adams quote I put down on the last page.
Post by
Monday
That's because they aren't warrior cities. That's the thing, Orgrimmar is basically a war town. It is filled with soldiers, the distinctive spikes and is close to the front lines. Perhaps it is Thrall reinforcing it (seeing as how they used Iron in W3 to reinforce buildings, perhaps they are using Saronite here because it is incredibly strong).
Oh, and SW has huge walls and portcullises to block sections of the city, Ironforge is built in a mountain, thus it needs no fortification, and fortification isn't how the Night Elves roll.
Post by
HiVolt
Again, there's a difference between functional and overdone.
So, what exactly, would you have done to reinforce Orgrimmar without overdoing it?
To me, it seems that the functionality of the new design is sound, without being overdone. The aim is to incite hesitance in any enemy attacker.
Sleek metal walls can crumble under enough mortar rounds. Put spikes on the walls, and the enemy is more likely to reconsider an attack. Fear is an effective tool in fortification.
Post by
Skreeran
That's because they aren't warrior cities. That's the thing, Orgrimmar is basically a war town. It is filled with soldiers, the distinctive spikes and is close to the front lines. Perhaps it is Thrall reinforcing it (seeing as how they used Iron in W3 to reinforce buildings, perhaps they are using Saronite here because it is incredibly strong).
Oh, and SW has huge walls and portcullises to block sections of the city, Ironforge is built in a mountain, thus it needs no fortification, and fortification isn't how the Night Elves roll.I would have been totally fine if they had used steel to reinforce the walls, and moved around all the buildings, but kept the overall mood of the current Org. But they way that they've apparently decorated it to appear unnecessarily evil and brutal, combined with the dark lighting and segregation...
I just don't like it.
It will take a lot to make me tolerate it. A lot. More than any of you have the power to provide.
Post by
Rankkor
Before and after are both after.
true :P fixed it already. thanks for the correction
Overall, I'd say the new Orgrimmar is a very nice change.
meh, diverging opinions really.
I can under stand why some people could hate this because its simply change
I don't hate it simply because it's a change, if that was the case i'd hate the entire expantion for changing 90% of azeroth, however I do like several of the changes, I hate the new look not because it's just a change, but for what that change represents.......
Excellent work, Rank... :)
That looks like it took a lot of work. Well done.
I more or less agree on all points.
thanks :D and yhea it took a lot of work, actually taking the screenshots and uploading them was the easy part, fitting 42 screenshots into a single post wasn't.
It shouldn't look like a warrior city. It should be well defended, yes, but if you had used plain old steel and stone to fortify the outside and key gates, it could have been just as practical without looking like Cirith Ungol.
pretty much this...... badass or not, the fact remains that orgrimmar went from a nice and warm place to live, to a rather dark and creepy place to live, before we know it, garrosh could develop a skull fettish, pop some green slime via the goblins and voila, Undercity 2.0
I just don't like it.
It will take a lot to make me tolerate it. A lot. More than any of you have the power to provide.
yup, pretty much this again XD, ya know, I wish I could see the reactions to people if the capital of the race they loved was changed in this negative way.
if say, darnassus was changed so that all the wood is replaced not just by black metal, but said metal shaped and decorated in the same architectural style used by the scourge on ICC.
or if the dwarves adopted the dark creepy as hell architecture of the shadowforge of the dark irons.
or of course if stormwind replaced the golden lions with a skeletal bat as their new symbol, and all the white walls replaced by black metallic walls reminicent to the legion invation points seen in outland.
then it would be intresting to see if they aprove of these changes "just cuz it looks badass+fortifies the town". There's a diference on defending something, and shattering the core of something needlessly, that creppy decoration used on the halls of legend was really necesary? those hellish hallways interconecting the drag with the valley of honor were necesary?
I think not-.
Post by
Rankkor
/shrug, You know, the big thing we still don't know on that... which 'Warchief' ordered the fortification; if it was Thrall or if it was Garrosh? I mean, Thrall can't have that much of a true problem with the black metal and all, he didn't stop Garrosh from creating and forging Warsong Hold.Warsong Hold is a fortress, built for war on hostile ground.
Orgrimmar is the home for thousands of people. It's not just a fortress for war, it's a home. It should feel like one.
Sort of like how the Undercity feels like a home?
the undercity was never a home to begin with, it's a sewer, and it looks like what it is, a sewer, undead don't need no homes, they don't sleep, don't eat, heck they probably don't even bathe.
they need a place to seek shelter, but hardly a home, if you do a quick scan in the UC; not a single home in sight, many stores, military and magic buildings but not a single house, this is a distinguishing feature unique to the UC; in that it doesn't have a single house (whereas other places like stormwind or silvermoon do have homes, several of them closed of course, but the point remains in that there's houses in there)
are you comparing a sewer used to host a bunch of living corpses, to a capital of a living race? the new decoration was unnecesary, you CAN reinforce something without making it look so wrong.
Edit: I Think my point was pretty much cemented clear when orrianis was uncapable of distinguishing hellfire citadel from new orgrimmar. if things have gotten so bad that people can actually confuse one with the other one, something is seriously wrong here people :S
Post by
Skreeran
Hey Rank, did you see the quote I put down on the last page? I think you'd like it.
Post by
Rankkor
heh, yhea, is that from a book? short novel? cuz if so I definitly have to read it.
regarding orgrimmar, I like the changes in the valley of spirits (minus the goblin segment) valley of wisdom, and the drag, as well as the new waterfall on the valley of honor, but the rest of the town has a really MESSED UP vibe to it that I just don't like.
not one bit.
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