This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Live
PTR
10.2.7
PTR
10.2.6
Beta
General Lore Discussions
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
Monday
that's not acceptable, NOT ACCEPTABLE, being led by a BRONZEBEARD but not being able to see his beard for inspiration? unaceptable! >-<
This ^^
Post by
HiVolt
I totally agree on both counts, Rank.
IT'S INJUSTICE, I SAY!
Post by
HiVolt
I made a post on the Official (Awful) Forums.
Also, I approve of this message.
Having a beard comes with many benefits, people. Skree and I know this to be a law of nature.
Every male character I've ever made has had a beard, had a beard been applicable. Each one of these characters has been the most awesome character ever. Coincidence? I think not.
Also, check my about page in the link in my sig if you need more proof of the awesomeness of beards.
Post by
Adamsm
Eh, if Varian had a beard, his chin would be blunted and not the super ultimate Limit Break attack at the end if he's about to die.
Post by
Morec0
You may not like Garrosh, but have to admit
what he's done with Orgrimmar is awsome...
Post by
Adamsm
You may not like Garrosh, but have to admit
what he's done with Orgrimmar is awsome...
Heh, according to some people, that's just pure evil in a city... because you know, Black Metal is always evil /rolleyes.
Post by
HiVolt
Eh, if Varian had a beard, his chin would be blunted and not the super ultimate Limit Break attack at the end if he's about to die.
Nah, it's Hellmasker so he'll just rip through the beard-covering with the chainsaw.
Post by
Morec0
You may not like Garrosh, but have to admit
what he's done with Orgrimmar is awsome...
Heh, according to some people, that's just pure evil in a city... because you know, Black Metal is always evil /rolleyes.
/rolleyes
Hmm, if black metal is always evil, then what do we make of Thrall's black plate?
Post by
Rankkor
You may not like Garrosh, but have to admit what he's done with Orgrimmar is awsome....
no, it is not.
I feel the same way about this change as Durotar felt in Rise of the Horde.......
The Citadel was incomplete, but the moment it came into Durotan's sight, he was stopped dead in his tracks. Beside him there were several awed murmurs.
"So powerful!"
"So big!"
"Worthy of a Warchief!"
Had Durotan spoken, he would have said:
Blasphemous, A blight upon the land. Out of harmony with everything we are
.
The traveling Frostwolf clan was still many leagues distant, but the Citadel perched upon the horizon like a buzzard. There was nothing in its design that bespoke orcish building. This structure,
this architectural nightmare
, this offense to eye and spirit was larger even than the draenei buildings.
Of course, Durotan knew its purpose, and it would have to be enormous if it were to constantly house an elite force of orcish warriors. Still, he had expected something else.
Instead of the smooth, sleek lines that marked the structures of the orcs, this fortress was sharp and jagged. Instead of coexisting with the landscape,
it dominated it
. Hewn from black stone and jagged wood and metal, it fairly brisded against the sky.
Durotan knew that he could see only the main tower from here, but that was enough. He stood as if rooted to the spot, reluctant to take a single step closer to that
monstrosity
.
A silent look passed between him and Draka. Were they the only ones left who saw? The rest of the Frostwolves moved forward, passing their chieftain. Reluctantly. Durotan squeezed his mount and continued.
Proximity to the fortress did nothing to make it seem more attractive. Now Durotan could see other buildings—barracks, storage silos, a flat expanse of training areas that were crowded with large weapons he had never seen before.
They too, looked dark, and dangerous, and deadly.
this "new" orgrimmar is just a carbon copy of hellfire citadel, and I feel about that just as Durotar (Thrall's father) felt about it as well.......
aparently I'm the only one who sees the "new" orgrimmar for what it really is........
yet another dark-looking monstrosity aimed at making the horde=playable bad guys.......
what are you doing to my beloved horde blizzard? why aren't you stopping this nonsence metzen?
I blame the writers, I know they have to keep the plot moving but you have no idea how much I want them to depic the alliance as the savage mean ones for a change.
but nope, nothing, still the uncorruptable heroes to the bitter end. even their achitecture reflects that.
Post by
Adamsm
Bah, I still don't think it's evil as your painting it Rank; the metal itself is a good choice, mainly because of what's coming; Dragons with breath weapons that would reduce leather and wood to nothing but splinters, and probably sunder stone as well, the metal is stronger. As for the Black, I still say that's part of Shock and Awe, trying to strike fear into the hearts of the mortal attackers, to at least draw them back a bit.
Post by
Rankkor
then again this is suposed to be a city. a C-I-T-Y. As in, a place for the civilians to live, a place for the children to grow up, a place for the family to be safe from the craziness of the outside.......
Stormwind got the chance to be reinforced without looking like a guantanamo prison or the fortress of the lich king in the process. It looks safe and nice, whereas the new orgrimmar looks quite creepy, is not "homey" anymore.
at least not the valley of strength, I must admit that the valley of spirits+wisdom+the drag got way better, but the rest of the town really looks like a place out of a nightmare.
I think garrosh is forgetting that orgrimmar is as much a civilian town as it is a military town.
what did you think happened on Rise of the Horde when ALL of the orcs got militarized? their training was started at age 6, giving children no childhood, and an accelerated growth to produce shock troopers? reducing all life to: forge armors, fight battles, eat, sleep, Rinse&Repeat?
the new orgrimmar looks like Italy when Mussolini took over. Or like the southern part of venezuela once chavez took over.
either way...... it's not pretty. This is suposed to be a home, not a barrack.
Post by
Morec0
You may not like Garrosh, but have to admit what he's done with Orgrimmar is awsome....
no, it is not.
I feel the same way about this change as Durotar felt in Rise of the Horde.......
The Citadel was incomplete, but the moment it came into Durotan's sight, he was stopped dead in his tracks. Beside him there were several awed murmurs.
"So powerful!"
"So big!"
"Worthy of a Warchief!"
Had Durotan spoken, he would have said:
Blasphemous, A blight upon the land. Out of harmony with everything we are
.
The traveling Frostwolf clan was still many leagues distant, but the Citadel perched upon the horizon like a buzzard. There was nothing in its design that bespoke orcish building. This structure, this architectural nightmare, this offense to eye and spirit was larger even than the draenei buildings.
Of course, Durotan knew its purpose, and it would have to be enormous if it were to constantly house an elite force of orcish warriors. Still, he had expected something else.
Instead of the smooth, sleek lines that marked the structures of the orcs, this fortress was sharp and jagged. Instead of coexisting with the landscape, it dominated it. Hewn from black stone and jagged wood and metal, it fairly brisded against the sky.
Durotan knew that he could see only the main tower from here, but that was enough. He stood as if rooted to the spot, reluctant to take a single step closer to that
monstrosity
.
A silent look passed between him and Draka. Were they the only ones left who saw? The rest of the Frostwolves moved forward, passing their chieftain. Reluctantly. Durotan squeezed his mount and continued.
Proximity to the fortress did nothing to make it seem more attractive. Now Durotan could see other buildings—barracks, storage silos, a flat expanse of training areas that were crowded with large weapons he had never seen before.
They too, looked dark, and dangerous, and deadly.
Times change, cultures
change
. Durotan was correct that the citadel was evil, but it was also created by evil people. Also, look at how twisted Hellfire Citadel is compared to how much neater and organized the metal in this is. That is evil, that's support to keep the place from falling on the heads of citizens.
this "new" orgrimmar is just a carbon copy of hellfire citadel, and I feel about that just as Durotar (Thrall's father) felt about it as well.......
aparently I'm the only one who sees the "new" orgrimmar for what it really is........
Actually, I think taurenmoo would agree.
yet another dark-looking monstrosity aimed at making the horde=playable bad guys.......
what are you doing to my beloved horde blizzard? why aren't you stopping this nonsence metzen?
Or it's simply a matter of practicality. Wood and bone dosn't hold up well to eathquakes. And so what if the Horde gets a darker touch? I'd like to see where the story goes, where it progresses to, instead of it remaining static for the whole of WoW.
I blame the writers, I know they have to keep the plot moving but you have no idea how much I want them to depic the alliance as the savage mean ones for a change.
Ummm, Varian anyone?
but nope, nothing, still the uncorruptable heroes to the bitter end. even their achitecture reflects that.
The darker style of Gilneas helps, somewhat.
EDIT: A city, eh? Look at New York CITY. It's poluted, gangs run around. Sure there are a number of nice spots, but there's also litter in the streat. CITY dosn't mean UTOPIA. CITY mean PRACTICAL. Those barricades protect the citizens as much as they house troops.
Post by
Rankkor
EDIT: A city, eh? Look at New York CITY. It's poluted, gangs run around. Sure there are a number of nice spots, but there's also litter in the streat. CITY dosn't mean UTOPIA. CITY mean PRACTICAL. Those barricades protect the citizens as much as they house troops.
do not compare real cities to in-game ones. Look at the 4 capitals of the alliance, all of them reinforced and ready to withstand an attack, but also look in harmony of what their respective races are (darnassus being built into trees and wood, Ironforge having the dwarvish architecture, Stormwind having the human architecture ect)
all 4 of them are reinforced, yet rettain the traditional look of their races. The actual orcish architecture is the one seen on places like Nagrand, or Crossroads, or even splintertree post, or valley of trials, but the new orgrimmar resembles more the architecture of the fel horde, with their posts in hellfire citadel, and the deathforge.
using metal instead of wood and bone is great an all that, but the decoration is that disgusts me, decorating the place like satan lives there isn't really helping to promote the image of the horde that I like.
the horde had a really nice vive and image in warcraft3, all of that has been pretty much evaporated into nothingness in WOTLK and Cataclysm, by litlle by litle stripping the horde of the nice noble elements it had on war3, and replacing them with the demonic, twisted, evil, creepy ones from earlier in the saga.
before you know it, Warcraft orcs will be like Tolkien orcs.......
And so why can't the alliance get a darker touch? I'd like to see where the story goes, where it progresses to, instead of it remaining static for the whole of WoW.
fixed that for ya, the horde already got a nasty dark touch on WOTLK (broken front, wrathgate, and warsong hold ring a bell?)
Post by
Adamsm
I think garrosh is forgetting that orgrimmar is as much a civilian town as it is a military town.Ironforge is darker looking, what with only a section of it actually open to the sky. Stormwind is surrounded by heavy walls, and each section of the city is separated with gates designed to close and keep riots and the like in the areas they start, or to make an area defensible. Gilneas City is gothic as all hell heh. Gnomer was a technocity, and had a large number of defenses and other systems all across it. Darnassus is open to the sky... but when areas of it can come alive and attack invading forces well.... It is both ways; nearly all the capitols are like that; after all, these are medieval times and you need fortification in addition to home, just look at any castle city in Europe during the dark ages.
the horde had a really nice vive and image in warcraft3, all of that has been pretty much evaporated into nothingness in WOTLK and Cataclysm, by litlle by litle stripping the horde of the nice noble elements it had on war3Just as many spikes on those buildings as there on the new Orgrimmar.
Post by
Morec0
And so why can't the alliance get a darker touch? I'd like to see where the story goes, where it progresses to, instead of it remaining static for the whole of WoW.
fixed that for ya, the horde already got a nasty dark touch on WOTLK (broken front, wrathgate, and warsong hold ring a bell?)
Ah, forgot that. But the story there is incomplete. And, again, you seem to be ignoring Varian's blatent "everything that goes wrong is the Horde's fault" racism.
the horde had a really nice vive and image in warcraft3, all of that has been pretty much evaporated into nothingness in WOTLK and Cataclysm, by litlle by litle stripping the horde of the nice noble elements it had on war3Just as many spikes on those buildings as there on the new Orgrimmar.
AND you could fortify it with metal.
Post by
Skreeran
I don't really like the look of new Orgrimmar.
If the Alliance were the aggressors, perhaps I'd be more forgiving of the military-industrial look. But considering that in all likelihood it is going to be Garrosh that sparks the war, it just feels like he's taking the orcish culture, the status quo, and throwing it out the window so he can start a war with the Alliance.
I'm with rankkor on this one. Ironforge, Stormwind, Darnassus, etc. all are fortress cities, while still remaining in line with their racial archetypes. Stormwind looks like humans built it. Ironforge looks like Dwarves inhabit it. Darnassus looks just like what the elves stand for.
Orgrimmar looks like a prison. It looks like Hellfire Citadel. It looks like Blackrock Spire.
There are two sides to the orcish coin, and neither of them can be denied. One side represents war, blood, fury, hate, and power. The other is fair, calm, reverent, brave, and respectful.
Before the Horde, the orcs lives in balance with their two natures. The first Horde destroyed that. The removed the second side. Doomhammer planted the seeds for its rebirth. Thrall cultivated it. Up until now, from Thrall's ascension to Chiefdom to Garrosh's coming to Azeroth, the orcs had almost restored their balance. They still killed a few people who didn't deserve it, and they still had room for improvement in their spirituality, but they has come a long way.
Their architecture reflected that. It had spikes, yes, and it was red, yes, but it was made from a union of wood, steel, and stone. They built their homes from a combination of natural and artificial materials, reflecting the two sides of their coin. And it was good.
Now that Garrosh, the very embodiment of the first side of the coin--of orcish brutality, of unbridled rage--has taken over, however, that balance is being upset. Architecture is becoming more fierce, more hostile. No longer is it made with respect to balance, to the earth, but instead it is returning to the way it was when the first Horde rose up, when the orcs were first thrown out of balance.
And we are afraid that that is a reflection of what it happening to the orcs. It is not just the change in their architecture we don't like, but what that change might imply.
Post by
Rankkor
BRAVO! BRAVO! (/aplause)
I wish I had that level of articulation in english to express my points that clearly skree :D
again, BRAVO! MAESTRO!.
Post by
Patty
Their architecture reflected that. It had spikes, yes, and it was red, yes, but it was made from a union of wood, steel, and stone. They built their homes from a combination of natural and artificial materials, reflecting the two sides of their coin. And it was good.You missed out the big-ass bones which jutt out into the ravines.
Now that Garrosh, the very embodiment of the first side of the coin--of orcish brutality, of unbridled rage--has taken over, however, that balance is being upset. Architecture is becoming more fierce, more hostile. No longer is it made with respect to balance, to the earth, but instead it is returning to the way it was when the first Horde rose up, when the orcs were first thrown out of balance.The only trouble is, that yes; as you stated earlier cities like Ironforge, Stormwind and Silvermoon are strategically defendable and still tie in with their races' culture, but Orgrimmar just isn't very defendable at the minute. Not only are crags overbearing it (making it open to aeriel assaults and ambushes from above), but it's also not got the type of reinforcement the walls of Stormwind and Ironforge have. Orgrimmar couldn't withstand much of an assault by any means, the Horde could only really defend it on an open plain.
Whilst I agree that the new Orgrimmar is rather menacing, it is far more structurally sound than it currently is. The walls are higher, stronger. I am guessing that there will be more aeriel defence, more guards and more physical barriers in general. What you're forgetting is that before the old Horde, cities and reinforced walls weren't really required because they weren't at war with a faction as large scale as the Alliance; the orcs weren't united into one entity either. Times have changed since Durotan, because the circumstances are more hostile than ever - other than the wars of the old Horde and the Burning Legion at Hyjal.
And we are afraid that that is a reflection of what it happening to the orcs. It is not just the change in their architecture we don't like, but what that change might imply.
It may or may not, we don't know yet. I admit, I think that Orgrimmar is a little too gloomy, but that gloom comes with a very strategic advantage.
Post by
Rankkor
u're missing the point bro'
was the metal really necesary? yes.
was the decoration taken from a nightmare of hell necesary? no.
think of darnassus, that entire place is made of WOOD, a single massive flaming atack could burn it to the ground, now imagine that to reinforce the place, nightelves cut down all the wood, replace it with dark metal, and on top of that shape that metal in the form of skulls, blood, demon wings, and pretty much turn Darnassus into a replica of the burning bastion of the legion?
see my point? you can defend something without taking away the core principles of that something. Orgrimmar needed to be reinforced, on that we agree. Orgrimmar didn't had to lose it's former beuty to do so. Specially since other capitals have managed to be reinforced while still retaining the beuty and principles of their core races (silvermoon rings a bell?)
Post by
Patty
u're missing the point bro'
was the metal really necesary? yes.
was the decoration taken from a nightmare of hell necesary? no.
think of darnassus, that entire place is made of WOOD,Actually, because of what Darnassus reminds me of (partially); Ancient Greek meets Japanese (which in itself is influenced by the Chinese Tang dynasty) architecture, a lot of Limestone and marble was probably used. Teldrassil itself is enchanted and warded, otherwise I'm sure it would have been burnt down by now.
you can defend something without taking away the core principles of that something. Orgrimmar needed to be reinforced, on that we agree. Orgrimmar didn't had to lose it's former beuty to do so. Well, we've both agreed the metal reinforcement was necessary. How do you propose they heavily reinforce it with metal without showing the metal that's used to reinforce it? I think Durotar will still have the same rustic charm as old Orgrimmar, and it's just the city which is changing. Specially since other capitals have managed to be reinforced while still retaining the beuty and principles of their core races (silvermoon rings a bell?)
Because the materials used to make Silvermoon's walls tie into their culture and landscape almost seamlessly. Thunder Bluff has a heavy geographical reinforcement. Orgrimmar doesn't, so has to stick out like a sore thumb in order to reassure that the city will still stand after some catastrophic and cataclysmic event in the face of almost certain warfare.
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.