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Varian Thread
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Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
Me belives that Rosenburg and Golden made his geniusness clear in Beyond the Dark Portal.What? You mean that quick thing he says about the camps being wrong? Please, that is one comment, of course in that same vein... his son is superior to him then.
As for the Doomhammer thing.. so because he killed the most evil parts of the Horde, he himself is evil? He's evil because rather then doom his people to starvation and a slow death on Draenor he tried to make a new start for his people here?
And I love that you say stuff like this:
Doomhammer did not have a care in the world for the people who lived there, his morals match Gul'dan's and Garithos'.Because that describes how Varian feels about the Orcs and the Undead..... interesting that eh? After all, Varian sees the Undead as standing in the way for the people of Lordaeron to retake Capital city, so they might as well wipe out those Undead's eh? Never mind that most of those are original residents of the area.
And hey, in that same vein; because the Orcs came from another world, we can kick them out of their new homeland, as no humans had claim to Durotar, but that doesn't matter, after all, it's just orcs, not like their humans eh?
Unless your willingly to look at both sides Dark, your just seen as a Fanboy, and not really worth debating. Nothing, absolutly nothing in Warcraft is Black and White, it's all shades of grey. Until you get that, your just going to be seen as flailing around on these forums, screaming "My Opinion is right! Your all noobs! I pwnzor jou!"
Post by
Dralas
I may have to start reading this again to make sure this stays civilized...
Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Dralas
Alright, I'll end this if neither of you can control your urges to call names. Either suck it up and act like adults, or I'll gladly call in a moderator to make sure this doesn't continue.
Post by
taurenmoo812
This is the thing isn't it Adam. I think of all the posters here you set the best example of seeing from the other side, because even though you play alliance, as finding Velen an awesome character, you also see from the other point of view, over the fench so to speak.
I'm the same in the respect of characters on the alliance side who I admire, Velen being one of them, as well as Jaina, Tyrande, Brann, even Lothar.
And although the mechanics of warcraft has it you have to choose a side, and more 95% of the time your find yourself more drawn to one side then the other, that doesn't mean you can't see the lore of the game from another angle, which we both manage to do.
You Dark however have proven you can't do the same.
You also seem to have this habit of just quoting the convictions people make towards you and throw them back at them in a none creative way.
example:
Its on Varian's Wowwiki page though.
... or mabye you just refuse to belive the Horde did anything wrong, and that they are perfect.
Considering you've been regarding Varian as perfect for 33 pages.
Pot calling the Kettle Black.
quoting from earlier again. Ironicly v
Really, go do something with yourself, and stop calling me a hypocrite. Your the one who is dodging the questions... you know, like how you chose to insult me because you can't find a come-back?
Alright, I'll end this if neither of you can control your urges to call names. Either suck it up and act like adults, or I'll gladly call in a moderator to make sure this doesn't continue.
I'm actully a very cival guy Dralas. I'm just fed up of how darks throwing counter point after counter point to anything said on him about Varain, that only he is right and anyone elses opinion is wrong or stupid.
If there was a more open point of view on this whole debate it might become more cival.
And Dark, its 7>1 because you ended up making it that way, even with reasonable debaters like Adam and Skeeran, so you dug your own one for this.
Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
Those are all minor outposts, and the blood elfs are helped almost to the point they are lead by Sylvanas.Exactly, they are all minor outposts. What Eastern Kingdoms forces are you talking about if it's not the Forsaken or the minor Outposts?
And as for the Blood Elves, acceptance into the Horde and the Ghostlands is the only real work they do together. They're friendly towards eachother, but the Blood Elves by no means take orders from Sylvanas.
She's not any sort of second in command. She's at the same level as the other leaders.
1. Hillsbrad: They have all been stationed ther by Sylvanas, and are trying to make sure the humans never live there again.
2. I can't help but feel sympathy for Galen, the poor guys life has been completely destroyed before his eyes. What is Thoras supposed to react on? Its the Golden rule to treat other the way you would like to be treated, and I would say the Trollbanes have a right to be mad at someone wanting them all dead.Oh don't you go bringing the Golden rule into this. I suppose Varian is treating the orcs the way he wants to be treated.
You want Velen to develop a vengeance to his character and you bring out the Golden Rule...
And yes, Stromgarde rejoined the Alliance.Really? I have seen no record of this. Enlighten me, please.
So this is a huge attack from those stupied trolls, and thier Horde, because they where sent by Vol'jin; Thrall's advisor.All Vol'jin said was to make every attempt to recover the sword. Don't make this about him.
Don't try this junk, Lothar would be just as mad; he suffered as much as Varian, and the people of Lordaeron helped him as well and are now being torn to shreads.His people aren't being torn to shreds!
Prove to me those aren't Scarlet Crusaders.
And again, Lothar would see the real enemy here, and he wouldn't waste soldiers fighting someone who is also the enemy of the bigger threat.
And there is also the fact that he is not here anymore due to Thrall's hero...The only point I see here is that it's useless to argue about what Lothar
would
do, since he's dead.
And give it a rest, Varian has been annoucned a genius diplomat. You are simply refusing to belive it.Lol. No. The only diplomacy he's even tried, he had to be persuaded by his 12 year old son. And then the next thing he did was claim that Thrall's race couldn't be trusted under any circumstances.
Yeah, he's a genius diplomat.
His people were enslaved because they supported his goal to destroy Azeroth's inhabitants because he wanted a world for himself. The guy is a villian.They spent 20 years in prison with broken spirits. They had kids. Kids grew into adults. They were still beaten and starved.
Thrall and Doomhammer freed them. They're both heroes.
I refer you to Adamsm post. Deal with that...
http://www.wowhead.com/?forums&topic=120017.32#p1488087
The Alliance have done that before, all thats done is let them kill people and no evasive action could be taken.Defensive action saves lives. Offensive action ends them.
Sending thousands of soldiers to wipe out the orcs will only serve to get thousands of humans and orcs both killed. And that's not even counting those lost to the real enemy.
Unfortunately, those are counted as "acceptable losses" by Varian, apparently.
Me belives that Rosenburg and Golden made his geniusness clear in Beyond the Dark Portal.He had half a page that is set roughly 18 years ago.
He only killed the shadow council for his own personal gain, and I never said that my opinions are greater.He killed them to avenge Durotan and purge the evil from the Horde's leadership.
But in all seriousness, Doomhammer is quite evil. At least Varian went to a peace meeting,Doomhammer also went to a peace meeting.
at least Daelin lost a son, at least Sylvanas met one bad human dispite seeing humans save Quel'Thalas.Don't understand this part.
Jaina lost a brother and you hate her. Sylvanas met a good human before she died. She's never met a human that shows her the least amount of kindness as a Forsaken.
Doomhammer did not have a care in the world for the people who lived there, his morals match Gul'dan's and Garithos'.HAHAHAHAHA!
No really. I'm dead serious. You really made me laugh in real life there.
Doomhammer cared for his people, and knew that he had to kill his enemy.
"My open hands will reward my friends, but let my enemies beware!"
Guess whose quote that is.
Its on Varian's Wowwiki page though.Just looked it over. Couldn't find it.
... or mabye you just refuse to belive the Horde did anything wrong, and that they are perfect.No, of course not. It's just you refusing to believe that Varian could possibly be doing anything wrong by sending wave after wave of his own men to purge the Horde from this world.
Really, go do something with yourself, and stop calling me a hypocrite. Your the one who is dodging the questions... you know, like how you chose to insult me because you can't find a come-back?
TROLLED!
And your a bigger cry-baby then I first thought, if possible.
Doomhammer just wanted to kill everyone for no reason, and Varian is constantly attacked and tried two peace summits.
Perhaps if Doomhammer found the orcs being experimented on by humans, you could begin comparing him to VarianTROLLED! AGAIN!
Doomhammer wanted to save his people from starvation and infighting. That's not no reason.
Again, prove to me those humans aren't crusaders.
Besides, he's already seen ALL of his people imprisoned with broken spirits and being treated like animals.
Varian is your Doomhammer. Maybe Anduin can be your Thrall.
Post by
taurenmoo812
Varian is your Doomhammer. Maybe Anduin can be your Thrall.
Exact Doomhammer made some correct choices in his actions, and kept his people alive, well Varian now keeps making mistake after mistake.
But seriously Skeeran, I'm not sure its even worth it now, every question you put to him ends up him dodging it or replying with another question, which you or anyone else is happy to answer, well he refuses.
Post by
Orranis
Varian can be forgiven for everything as long as he tanks Deathwings chin. Seriously, short of that, were doomed.
Post by
taurenmoo812
Varian can be forgiven for everything as long as he tanks Deathwings chin. Seriously, short of that, were doomed.
Something tells me a battle between captain chin and the aspect of chins will just be them two trying to charge each other with chins preventing them from touching one another.
Post by
Interest
Varian can be forgiven for everything as long as he tanks Deathwing with his
chin.
Seriously, short of that, were doomed.
Fixed.
Post by
Patty
Varian can be forgiven for everything as long as he tanks Deathwings chin. Seriously, short of that, were doomed.
Varian can be a face shield. c wut i did thur?
Alright, I'll end this if neither of you can control your urges to call names. Either suck it up and act like adults, or I'll gladly call in a moderator to make sure this doesn't continue.I'm with you.
/signed
Post by
HiVolt
The Horde Players guide was written before the Burning Crusade, so that doesn't count the Blood Elves.
The Horde in Middle and Southern EK don't really obey her either. Grom'gol, Kargath, Stonard, etc. all report to orcs.
That leaves the Northern EK, which is controlled by the Forsaken. Makes sense that they report to their own queen.
Those are all minor outposts, and the blood elfs are helped almost to the point they are lead by Sylvanas.
It's off-topic, but I just want to say something about this. These "minor outposts" are the largest Horde influence in the southern Eastern Kingdoms, and as such cannot be written off as minor, especially Grom'gol Base Camp. The strategic location of that base is by far the best staging point that the Horde could ask for in a possible incursion toward Stormwind, and as such, cannot be regarded as a minor outpost.
It's likely that Grom'gol is very well defended and reinforced from a lore aspect.
Also, Kargath is the staging point for the Horde against the Dark Horde in Searing Gorge and the Burning Steppes, so it wouldn't be so lightly defended either.
There is also a great strategic importance to Stonard as well.
Read this thread
, I came up with that awhile back, but it still holds ground. And some of the things I thought of have been mentioned with Cataclysm.
Post by
Skreeran
Hahahaha...
HAHA!
Check out this text from the ICC raid:
Highlord Tirion Fordring yells:Our march upon Icecrown Citadel begins now!
The Lich King yells:Nothing will protect you...
Highlord Tirion Fordring yells: ARTHAS! I swore that I would see you dead and the Scourge dismantled! I'm going to finish what I started at Light's Hope!
The Lich King yells: You could have been my greatest champion, Forging: A force of darkness that would wash over this world and deliver it into a new age of strife.
The Lich King yells:But that honor is no longer yours. Soon, I will have a new champion.
The Lich King yells:The breaking of this one has been taxing. The atrocities I have committed upon his soul. He has resisted for so long, but he will bow down before his king soon.
Highlord Bolvar Fordragon yells: NEVER! I... I will never... serve... you...
The Lich King yells: In the end, you will all serve me.
High Overlord Saurfang says: The paladin still lives? Is it possible, Highlord? Could he have survived?
Highlord Tirion Fordring says: The power of the Light knows no bounds, Saurfang. His soul is under great strain, but he lives – for now.
High Overlord Saurfang says: Then we must save him! If we rescue Bolvar Fordragon, we may quell the unrest between the Alliance and the Horde.
High Overlord Saurfang says: Our mission is now clear: The Lich King will answer for his crimes and we will save Highlord Bolvar Fordragon!
High Overlord Saurfang yells: Kor'kron, prepare Orgrim's Hammer for its final voyage! Champions, our gunship will find a point to dock on the upper reached of the citadel. Meet us there!
Suck on that.
ALLIANCE AND TEH HRODE CAN NEVAR WORK TOGETHER! TEH GREENSKINS ONLY WANT TO KILLS TEH HUMANS!
And what has Varian done for the Horde, again? Remind me. I keep hearing that he's such a great diplomat, but after Saurfang there... I just dunno. I never saw insults and warmongering as good diplomacy when compared with vowing to save the other factions champion for the hope of peace.
(Link:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/news-2/marrowgar-icecrown-citadel-blue-posts/
)
Post by
Rankkor
pff I don't know why do you keep wasting your time, bro's.
Varian believes all orcs to be evil, even the ones he hasn't met, even the ones his friends have met but he hasn't he pre-judges an entire race based on the actions of a few.
on real life, if at age 12 a chinesse killed my father, and then at age 20 a chinesse gang kidnaps me and ransoms my family, and then at age 30 a chinese terrorist cell bombs my neigborhood, and then I say "half-chinese, full chineese. it doens't matter, all chineese are monsters who must be PURGED from this world" would that make me a racist?
the answer is very simple darkton, OF COURSE IT WOULD MAKE ME A RACIST. on this simple ficticious hypotetical example, just because a few chineese wronged me, doesn't give me the right to say that the other billion and a half chineese in the world are just like them.
just because all the orcs varian has met (wich happens to be less than 40) did wrong stuff to him , does not and WILL NEVER give him the right to pre-judge the entire race.
accept it or live on denial darkton, varian is a racist, maybe not as racist as garithos, but then again, I'll apply varian's rule to this matter. "partly-racist, or full-racist, it doens't matter, a racist is a racist, and none can be trusted"
pff I don't know why do i still bother. again I think I may be more sucsessfull if I try to teach my bypolar grandmother how to disarm and rearm a computer, even when she at her age of 110 still confuses the microwave with a tv.
Post by
Skreeran
Rankkor, you see my post?
God, I love Saurfang.
Post by
Patty
Well, Varian
is
a racist, by any definition of the word. I've never claimed anything differently. When arguing, you should have a rock solid argument if you're being narrow minded, or willing to listen to others.
Some posters, on both sides, are pretty poor at both. If you can't debate nicely, and accept and respect other people's points, there's no point in staying here.
Skreeran, thank you for that post! You just enlightened me. To me, Saurfang embodies the spirit of the new Orcs.
Post by
Rankkor
OMG skreeran LONG LIVE SAURFANG!
i may loose some points of maturity for saying this, but........... SUCK ON THAT VARIAN LOVERS!.
"varian fighting back" my-ass, on icecrown citadel HE is the one who bullyes the horde into a confrontation, Saurfang wants to rescue bolvar, but mister chin doesn't want the orcs to be anything but monsters, he would never let them clear their name just like that.
I'll add a final nail to this coffin skreeran, look at this :D
this dialog marks just how narrowminded varian is:
aparently he has the right to make any acusation he wishes against the horde, without any kind of proof to prove he's right.
but when a horde member in the trial of the crusader does the same
Treacherous Alliance dogs! You summon a demon lord against warriors of the Horde! Your deaths will be swift!
aparently he feels offended.
Our honor has been besmirched! They make wild claims and false accusations against us. I demand justice!
I believe that he believes that he IS allowed to make wild claims and false acusations
(such as atempted assassination on a peace meeting just because one of the assassins was an orc)
but the horde is not allowed to do the same
(acuse the alliance of consorting with demons to exterminate the horde, just because that idiot fizzlebang was a gnome)
you know how this is called? being a stuck up daddy's boy, and there is the dillema, of why I think this chin.dude it's the worst king in the history of kings.
easy to taunt, easy to provoke, easy to trick, easy to manipulate, easy to anger, and prone to make hasty judgement without having the facts togheter, refusal to trust his allies and advisors, refusal to know all the facts even when he has the resourses and means to know everything we know thanks to wowwiki.
the only reason you think he's such a good king is because you read the comics and were biased by them to like him.
I know better.
Post by
366611
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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