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Varian Wrynn = Deathwing?
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Post by
Adamsm
A:pull his forces back and save them, wait for them to heal, and them strike back with a united offensive, but giving time to the enemy to reorganize and reinforce the place up,
or
B: order his men to stay, they will die, but their sacrifice will buy the second squad the time they need to get to the site, and finish off the horde forces and burn their base.
option A, put more value on his men than a simple horde base, or option B, sacrifice the men but destroy the base.
I SWEAR IT he would choose B, he wound't even consider A at all.
Uh.... no I dont think so Rankkorr, Varian wouldn't just throw away lives for no reason. He is an intelligent military commander even if you don't think so. He may hate the orcs but he's not willing to throw endless forces at something hopeing it would fall, he would be sure of the attack before he began.
Also, Malfurion is going to be too busy fighting against Ragnaros to lead the Alliance.
Post by
Skreeran
Don't get me wrong, I don't like Varian, and I agree that he's willing to commit genocide to deal with the Horde, but honestly, he does care about his people, quite alot actually. He did declare war in the Undercity, but he doesn't see there being any other option. To me, this demonstrates his wrongness, because he's not trying hard enough to take the other factors into consideration, but I don't think he's consciously risking his people. If his eyes, the orcs are already fighting them, and now he's just fighting back. As I said, I think this is a gross flaw in his judgement, but I'm certain he cares about his people. He just doesn't care about my people.
Yikes, to think I'm defending Varian... 0.o
Post by
Rankkor
humm, I gotta admit u do have a point there skeeran (dang, u're good bro' xD, is hard for me to debate with ya)
I still have hopes that varian will die on cataclysm, and Malfurion will assume leadership of the alliance
(is an unlikely imposible dream, but hey dreaming is free rite? ;P)
Varian
wouldn't just throw away lives for no reason. He is an
intelligent
military commander
I'm sorry, but the words "varian" and "intelligent" can't be used on the same sentence, it goes against the laws of logic :P for that matter the word Garrosh and Inteligent can't go on the same phrase either.
just as the words "saurfang" and "looser" DEFINITLY can't go togheter on any other sentence other than "saurfang cleaves loosers"
Post by
Skreeran
Thanks... :P I do my best. ;)
Post by
Skreeran
By the way, saw you edit...
"Saurfang's belt was a little too tight, so he made it looser."
Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
He was reffering how the horde was allowed t prosper while the Forsaken plan to destroy the human race. According to Wowwiki, Sylvanas is the second strongest person in the Horde.I seriously doubt that. The Forsaken were barely let in. Vol'jin, Cairne, and Drek'thar would all have higher positions than Sylvanas.
No, he is the leader of the Alliance.
This is why i hate you, taurenmoo, you always guess, you always whine, you always complain, you always come up with petty insults toward Varian. If you read to lore, you might know Varian supported the interment camps over death.....Hey, cool it now. If you can't treat others on this forum with respect, you should find a new forum. This is a community, we try our best to get along and understand the other points of view that people hold.
I just laugh when you or the moron who wrought "Why Varian Wrynn is a fool", say that humans should not be leader of the Alliance. They always have been, and always will be. Thats a fact.
Anyway, "Varian" and "intelligent" can go together. Read Beyond the Dark Portal pages 21-22. He is quite a good leader.
And you spelled "loser" wrong.....See above. And the Alliance is not like the Horde. They don't have one leader who gets the last word. If Varian says they go to war and Velen says no, the Draenei don't go to war and there's nothing Varian can do about it without declaring war on the Draenei. Same thing with every other race in the Alliance. In the Horde there is one Warchief who has the last word, period. You agree to this by joining the Horde. This is not so, however, in the Alliance.
Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
Seeing as you have been to Wowwiki (every thing you make is named "Skreeran" lol), I was expecting you to have seen the Horde page. Look at it.
I try to treat everyone with respect. I respect you by a ton. Taurenmoo has been really getting on my nerves lately by acting like Varian needs to fall into a pit of fire and die.
I understand the difference in government between the horde and alliance. But Varian has been declared the alliance leader by Metzen, and if Thrall is so very in charge, why cant he make Garrosh go into Ulduar?I've seen the Horde page. I don't see anywhere where it says she's second in command. Logically, Cairne and Vol'jin, which Thrall knows closely and has known for seven years or more. Sylvanas is certainly more of a leading influence on the Forsaken then Thrall, but she's certainly not second in command of the Horde.
And of course you're going to find those who think Varian is entirely wrong, which he isn't, just like he isn't totally right. I've seen people say that they think Thrall's a hypocrite or outright evil, or that Jaina is a traitorour !@#$%, but I do my best to approach them logically instead of losing my head and saying I hate them or that they're a moron.
And as for leadership, where did Chris say he's the leader? If he did, I would think he meant "the primary driving force of the Alliance" rather than "the ultimate authority in the Alliance."
And for Garrosh, I imagine Thrall didn't send him into Ulduar because that would only cause more problem for the Explorer's League. Garrosh is a decent general and a terrible diplomat. It's be silly to send him into an expedition mainly headed by Humans, elves, and dwarves.
Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Arkham
that's the only thing in common with deathwing and varian, both of them believe their own race to be superior and the
others
Horde races to be inferior savage filthy thieves murderers and unfit to inhabit this world.
Fixed.
Be fair, there's nothing to indicate he feels this way about the Alliance races. He's only ever spoken poorly of the Horde races.
Don't try to couch his words as if he's a true-blue "human supremacist" as if he were the second coming of Garithos. He hates the Horde, and mostly the Orcs at that. Not all non-humans.
Post by
Adamsm
that's the only thing in common with deathwing and varian, both of them believe their own race to be superior and the
others
Horde races to be inferior savage filthy thieves murderers and unfit to inhabit this world.
Fixed.
Be fair, there's nothing to indicate he feels this way about the Alliance races. He's only ever spoken poorly of the Horde races.
Don't try to couch his words as if he's a true-blue "human supremacist" as if he were the second coming of Garithos. He hates the Horde, and mostly the Orcs at that. Not all non-humans.
Yup, he has no problem with the Darkspear Trolls, the Tauren and the Blood Elves. He consider's dwarves to be steadfast and true allies, is amused by the gnomes(as is most of Azeroth), respects the Night Elves..... and hasn't any contact with the Draenei so can't say anything there.
He has the same hatred for the undead that anyone who considered Lordaeron a homeland has, and the orc hatred is already well known and I'm not putting that down again.
Deathwing though, sees the races as 3 things: Slaves, labour and food. He believes that everything that lives should be his to rule.
Post by
HiVolt
Deathwing though, sees the races as 3 things: Slaves,
corpses
and food. He believes that everything that lives should be his to rule.
Fix'd, I think the Labor part goes with the Slaves part. Then again the corpses part might go with the food part...
Post by
Adamsm
Well not all the goblins were slaves..... just most of them. So you can have slaves and those who willingly serve him.... because their completely and totally apes**t crazy, just like him. And actually, humans orcs undead and trolls.... they all end up the same after Deathwing eats them, so there's your equality.
Post by
Arkham
And actually, humans orcs undead and trolls.... they all end up the same after Deathwing eats them, so there's your equality.Jungle trolls are so lanky and thin, though. And the undead are rotting. Not like the big ol' orcs and forest trolls, they've got some meat on their bones...
Sure, they all end up the same
after
he eats them, but I bet Deathwing thinks some races taste better than others beforehand, amirite?
Post by
Skreeran
Beef it's what's for dinner, amirite?
By the way Arkham, did you take your name from the Batman asylum?
Post by
Adamsm
Hmm, you know, thats actually something you dont really see in the Lore books; the Dragon's eating anyone beyond prey food.... but seeing as pretty much anything, even other dragons would be considered prey food.....
Post by
Supremacy
And I'm saying Rankkor illustrated the alliances new ruler perfectly.
Firstly, he's meant to only be the king of stormwind right? But with his sudden reappearance he has self claimed himself as the leader of the alliance as a whole, with the vast majority of the alliance being human, and the other races following him, his self claim to being ruler of the alliance has just fallen into it.
Strangely, I don't remember that. I mean, I remember him reappearing, and taking his place as the king of Stormwind, but I don't really clearly recall any time when he said that Ironforge and Darnassus are also part of his domain.
Sure, Stormwind has a larger presence than most of the other factions. That's just because, as far as I understand?
There are just more humans.
The prison camps, when Varian Wrynn was a child, its hardly anything to say his opinion of what should happen to the orcs then mattered like it does now. And his opinion of the orcs now has turned itself around (if you start listing his reasons I'll flame you like a pyro blasting mana crack elf).
Huh. Well, I'll go back and double check, but I could have sworn he had some say in not executing the orcs after the war.
By the by, as far as his reasons, I'm assuming you mean his reasons for disliking the orcs? While I don't understand the "pyro blasting mana crack elf" remark, even Blizzard's gone on record of saying he has a lot of reasons to not like them.
So what your saying is by referer to a character in fiction as being a reflection of a well known real world dictator and murderer, you think its going to offend people that such a comparison is made. I could just as well turn that back and say I find it offensive that you didn't make that comparison in the first place, and couldn't see it like that.
You could turn that back. You would be wrong though, and I don't make a habit of telling people that. You have no leg to stand on. If I said I didn't make a comparison between something in Azeroth and something on Earth, that would be perfectly acceptable...because one is real and one is not.
...you do get that, right? Azeroth isn't real? I mean, if the Horde/Alliance lost a battle, it would be okay if I didn't immediately think of the War of the Roses, or something.
God, do you know how many references there are to real world stuff that blizzard has put in wow, and yet one reference to a nazi dictator and you say 'oh thats offensive'?
...seriously?
I don't even know what to say to that. I mean, I'll let you reread that.
People reference nazisum in so many ways as a standard for the ultimate form of bigotry and genocide, because thats what it represented at the second world war.
If by second world war, you mean the war between the orcs and humans, then by all means, make the comparison. If you're talking about the war on Earth - the real war, where real people died - then maybe it doesn't really belong in a conversation about elves and trolls.
Personally, I can read in your post as someone who's just realised a lot of what the previous poster said being true, and now trying to deny it.
That's an interesting interpretation of what I wrote.
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