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Live
PTR
10.2.7
PTR
10.2.6
Beta
So, ret is over.
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Post by
89501
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Post by
Arcolite
Even still whats worse is that more than half the classes and specs in WoW require even LESS skill than rets do but blizzard doesnt seem to have a problem with AB AB AB > missle barrage proc > arcane power > AM until mb proc wears off (t8 set bonus) and repeat. But they do have a problem with letting any of our attacks hit for anything more than a sac filled with feathers. Ret paladins have no strong attacks in the magnitude of warlocks, or hunters, or warriors, or mages, or hunters.
That's true. I can pull 4k on my Mage without even trying. Usually I'm watching TV :p
Scorch x 5, LB then FFB til Pyro or to renew Scorch/LB. It's a breeze!
I heal on my Paladin more than DPS, but the few raids I've done as Retribution are frantic button whack-a-mole to even get close to the top five.
I know there is supposed to be a gap between Pure DPS and Hybrid DPS, but not all Hybrids are equal at the moment and while we haven't seen the internal PTR builds, the current PTR isn't helping close that gap. If anything it's a step in the other direction.
Although my current Paladin is a Draenei with very little old world achievements, my first lvl60 was a Paladin Pre1.9 so although I'm not a full time Paladin player, I feel your pain and hope that one day Retribution is viable enough for me to consider retiring the boring Mage. I've always had a Paladin and always enjoyed it. It's just never been quite right enough for me to make it my Main.
(It was 5min Blessings and Cleanse spam in Molten Core that drove me to Mage) :p
Post by
Synectics
Quack quack help on stuff quack quack EJ or Maintankadin. Wowhead quack quack prettier quack quack Thottbot.
Quack...
Quack quack NERF quack quack. QQ... Blizzard quack quack. Quack quack QQ quack.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean.
It was the initial "hark, the sky is falling!" that ruffled my feathers. It's a PTR -- immediately going up in arms over a change makes no sense. The whole point of them putting that change on the PTR is to get it tested, and to see if it works. Shouting "OMG NERF" doesn't help, and if anything, I could see Blizz leaving it in
just
to spite us. :P
If the stack is only applied through white attacks, that could be a nice answer to our burst, and help us get more sustained DPS in PvE. However, we need something to help us otherwise -- it's hard to justify using SoV/C in PvP with that system, so why not give us a SoC that hits just a little better? Obviously SoV/C at full stack will hit harder, but in PvP it's going to be very hard to get that full stack.
Dunno, just thinking out lo--quack quack.
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235053
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101561
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Post by
Synectics
Okay well personally I feel that in order to balance everything out Blizzard should just make it so that SoB is no longer able to be used in PVP. Leave everything else alone and just make it one of the abilities that are locked for use in arenas. In PVE just take away the recoil and everyone can be happy. I for one am a huge fan of SoB. I have loved it ever since I acquired the chance to use it.
Your solution makes about as much sense as making Exorcism unusable on players. It's just bad design, and something Blizz has admitted to dropping the ball on.
But your suggestion is null anyway, if you read the PTR patch notes -- SoB/M is gone, SoComm is now a welfare version of it, and SoV/C is now the seal of choice for both tanking and DPS. Yippee.
Really makes you wonder what Blizz would say when it's put that way. Shouldn't spending talent points give you beneficial abilities? If that were the case, why the hell would you get SoComm? Sure, it's nice to level with, but everyone and their grandma just specs out of it when they get SoB/M. So now, won't we just drop it when we get SoV/C? It may still be useful to level with instead, but at 80, there's really little point to having it.
And hey, Gong... Back to topic...
Major nerf incoming then. Sigh... Blizzard lied to us again. Let's hope they fix it. ...is hardly constructive conversation. I think that's the point mrmunkles was trying to make. Furthermore, quack quack QQ quack.
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235053
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Post by
PureGold
The biggest problem of this whole "Ret burst is too high" fad that blizzard is piggybacking on is completely false.
The biggest burst I've seen is a destro lock targeting me, sneezing in my direction, boom I'm dead. 5-8k crits all in a line on ~300ish resil.
But oh, take a great seal out of the game and replace it by gimping and ruining other seals in the process.
*Thumbs up blizz* Honestly though, If you have played a pally for over a year why aren't you used to being nerfed or changed, or looked at funny when you cross the street?
Post by
PureGold
Trev,
Did you actually read bender's initial post? Since its seems from your posts that you havnt let me quote it for you.
Current PTR build:
PvE
SoV 33% weapon damage from white hits only.
Dummy dps dropped by about 1k from last build (was doing 3.4k, 0.5k more then live).
JoL scales equally for all paladins.
Lowest pve dps, no added benefit as 3rd paladin (1 holy 1 prot and your raid is fine now).
PvP
JoC crits for 2.5k self buffed, armory my pvp gear.
Still no interrupts.
Still no distance closer.
Still all the old gamebreaking bugs.
People playing ret in TBC and before is well aware of how fast blizz nerfs us, but they take 1 expansion worth of time to buff back when necessary. It's over.
His gear is a PERFECT reason why his damage may be low on certain things specials. His last line about "its over" is melodramatic and there are no ifs ands or buts about it. I do NOT know what his rotation is as it was never posted and as no parse was posted his cry is farther disproven in that there is no actual DATA. It also doesnt take a genious to figure out that a strange undocumented drop in dps on a PUBLIC TEST REALM is 99% likely due to a bug (which is now common knowlege). There was truth in the drop in dps but his attitude, way of posting said information and claims of a dead spec are beyond belief.
This will likely be my last post on the issue since you clearly have an axe to grind and are not interested in any real discussion.
oh and QFT
Post by
Arcolite
While the PTR is indeed bugged, it isn't going to magically stop being a DPS loss on all the new content (Ulduar onwards). Tank and Spank fights like most of Naxxramas will be fine, but any of the new style bosses with target switching or movement will be a nightmare for Retribution DPS the same way it is for Affliction Warlocks and Shadow Priests (not quite as much, but you get my point).
The new unbugged SoV/C requires 12-15 seconds ramp up time before you get full DPS out of it.
This is due to the DoT only applying from Auto Attacks and Hammer of the Righteous.
Seal of Vengeance and Seal of Corruption: These seals have been redesigned to deal substantially more damage. Now, once a paladin has 5 copies of the debuff from these seals on his or her target, on each swing the paladin will deal 33% weapon damage as Holy, with critical strikes dealing double damage. In addition, the damage-over-time effect is now considered a melee attack instead of a spell attack and the effects from these seals can only be triggered by auto-attacks and Hammer of the Righteous.
Think of fights like XT with his Heart or Freya with the Three Adds. 12-15 seconds of non-seal DPS on a timed phase is a DPS loss compaired to Live and the Original PTR even with the bug removed no matter how you look at it. Also the DoT only lasts for 15 seconds so during that target switch you'll lose the stack on the boss meaning you have to start from scratch each time. Sure on a Tank and Spank fight with no movement you would probably work out with a DPS gain, but on fights with multiple targets or fights with adds that need bursting down, Retribution will be bottom of the pile again.
Yogg Saron will also be a tough fight for Retribution now. Things wont live long enough to get a decent return from 5 stacks and SoComm does less DPS than SoB/M. Current math also says that SoR with StoP from Holy will do more DPS/Damage than SoComm making SoComm hardly worth the 1 point again.
Another pure DPS drop from Live even without bugs.
Even VoA will be tough. During the Emalon fight you'll need 12-15 secs to stack to 5 on the boss before full DPS, then you have to switch to the Add before it pops, but that wont have 5 stacks so you'll have to wait for 5 auto-attacks before that is at 5 stacks...at which point it's either A) Dead or B) The stack has dropped of the boss because the DoT only lasts 15 seconds.
Sugar coating the situation as "Oh it's only a bug" doesn't really help when even with the bug removed the facts are still so obvious even Elitist Jerks are worried.
It looks like a new build went out last night so we'll have to see how things look once new data comes in.
(It'll be interesting to see which lines people actually read of this post and which they pick on or point out as "QQ" or "FOTM". I'll just add that my Main is a Mage and my Paladin is a Healer Alt. I'm not bothered about Retribution DPS I'm just joining the debate).
Post by
101561
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